Help with german pointer

[uplandfam]

Hi all,
I am new to the forum but not new to hunting. I need some help with my GSP. In the past i had a golden retriever i used for well, water retrieving. He was easy to train and never had any problems. fast forward a lifetime later. I have been hunting upland birds for a while know mostly quail. so i did almost a year of research. read many different books. maybe too many. and got a GSP. He is amazing. my wife has a maltese and my son a cocker mix. they are great family dogs but i finally got a new real mans dog. he is almost 6 months and was progressing great with training, he was running big at least 60 yards out, pointing on everything and really using his nose, until.... he got into the choya cactus in the wash by my house got about 6 good sized thorns in his rear leg. He know will not get out past about 10 yards from me. He will chase a ball as far as i can toss it but will not hunt far at all. and if i slow down even a little he is under my feet. any advise from any one that has trained pointers. I do not have big money for a professional trainer at this time or id would have taken him already.

thanks all and happy hunting.

 

[Aeon]

A gsp that stays close, that's a hunters dream.

Only way to work past a traumatic event is to desensitized over time. I would start on a ball field and work on basics then introduce cover. Might help to run the dog with some other well trained dogs. Competitive behaviour will override the trama.

 

[uplandfam]

I wish i had friends that hunted or had dogs. Ive been trying to get with some clubs but most are pretty far away or want too much for membership. Im not hugly concerned but i dont need just another family dog i need a hunting dog he cost me a pretty good value trade and he eats more then my other 2 combined. ill keep the faith and keep him going. My other dogs are older and lazy so they wont work.

thanks

 

[MJB]

Just keep at Iit and do what aeon said.

NAVDA is really cheap and well worth the money if you want to find others like you with a GSP

 

[stikbrandon]

Man you got to get your dog to run with another dog, my dog is a gsp/lab mix and she was scared of water when I got her... She loves upland hunting loves to retrieve but was sketchy about water, she wouldnt go in past her knees so I took her to the salton sea with my buddy and his lab and as soon as the first duck dropped the lab was after it. Needless to say my dog was wright behind him, so like aeon said hunt your dog with another dog..... I live in temecula so if ur up here during upland season I'd be happy to walk the fields with u.

Don't force it tho.

 

[uplandfam]

i live in north LA county, but id drive as far as i need to to hang out with some good guys like you all and have my dog meet some other good dogs. my pointer loves water no problem its strange but my wifes maltes (little white dog) loves the water and showed him early that water is fun. so i know all about other dogs helping. i dont want to rush him but i dont want to make anything worse and nip it as early as i can.

thanks all

 

[uplandfam]

Man you got to get your dog to run with another dog, my dog is a gsp/lab mix and she was scared of water when I got her... She loves upland hunting loves to retrieve but was sketchy about water, she wouldnt go in past her knees so I took her to the salton sea with my buddy and his lab and as soon as the first duck dropped the lab was after it. Needless to say my dog was wright behind him, so like aeon said hunt your dog with another dog..... I live in temecula so if ur up here during upland season I'd be happy to walk the fields with u.

Don't force it tho.

the site seams to be down they are listed on my google search bu the site does not come up?

 

[uplandfam]

I could not get a hol of any one at the club mentioned. Does any one have a place they train that might be able to help?

 

[Snake Charmer]

Hey Uplandfam, we're located in SD county and train bird dogs for a living ( we have six gsp's in for training at the moment). p.m. me your phone # and I'll share some economical ideas and options for you to explore.

 

[Baldkrash]

I was thinking about getting a GSP. But I was quoted $3K for one. What do you think about adopting from the GSP rescue folks?

 

[uplandfam]

baldkrash,
im sure some one here will have more experience then me with GSP's I know goldens pretty well and house dogs pretty well. From my experience any dog can be a great house dog. my wife has a breed standard maltese(not the tea cup) but still pretty small. he is amazing doesnt bark at just anything but always barks when he needs to and my sons dog is a cocker spaniel mix also great in many ways. we have a very balanced pack.

However this GSP is a real pain in my assets. I researched for over a year before getting one. I talked with rescues that wanted several 100 to rehome a 5 yr old dog. I spoke with breader/trainers that wanted, like you said, several 1000. From what i saw you can get a purebreed from a home breeder for about $500. then the work begins. I got mine from a guy that had a male and a female and the little was a mistake. I traded a ruger P345 (we hated that gun) for my dog, and he paid dros. we watched his parents both hunt a field when we met the seller and they were great. my own personal opinion is if you have the $1000+ get one from a trainer and pick up the dog in 6 months fully trained. If you dont have the money but you have the yard and patience and time to walk and train every day then get a pup from a home breeder. read up on training books before you buy. some of them have great write ups on the best way to pick a hunting pup. they are the most work i have ever had in a dog.
but i love him.

sorry about the giant picture dont know how to resize from my phone or rotate it.

 

[Snake Charmer]

In the pointing dog world an untrained pup generally goes for$1000 - 1500 that's the easy part. Trained dogs are a whole different story and price varies depending on bloodline and degree of training. If you want to own a versatile dog (i.e pointing dog) and want to keep cost on the down low join The North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association before you get a pup, meet the chapter members , learn what's out there and attend a few field tests to see and decide what breed you like best. NAVHDA is dedicated to teaching and promoting the versatile breeds. P.M. me if you would like some breeder contacts

 

[uplandfam]

i knew some one would know much more then me. since im new to GSPs My boy is not even 6 months and he retrieves like no bodys business and drops it in hand but since the cactus incident i cant get him to run big again and he points at everything even if nothing is there. I just need some help getting his confidence back up. since he is only 6 months i dont want to push him but he was doing soo good.

 

[Snake Charmer]

Your pup is young (six months) now is the time to start birddog training, I can't over emphasize NAVHDA if you have the time to train. Join the club and purchase the training guidelines along with attending training days and you will be successful as well as meeting some really great folks.

 

[MJB]

^^^^^^what he said!

And don't forget your training most of the time the handler is at fault more than the dog

3k better be a finished dog.......I've seen the 3k pups work and not worth it unless you are hunting everyday then I can see where that dog could be worth the money but that's not most of us leave those dogs for the pros and guides they get the full potential out of the dog.

It's funny all you pointing guys want dogs to go big........great for trials and planted birds but wild birds run and flush 100's of yards away.......that's when I block and clean house.

 

[uplandfam]

Well the pros can have the $1000+ dogs cause I just don't have it. Mine was a trade worth $350. I don't really want him out past about 50 yards but right now he isn't 5 yards out. I'll try contacting navhda again and see if I can get some help and join.

 

[8SteelTown]

Nice lookin dog uplandfam!

 

[MJB]

Just show up at one of their training days. Look at their web site I recommend the inland empire club. Send me a pm I can get you some one to talk to.

I bet that tail clears a few coffee tables

 

[uplandfam]

Thanks steel town.

Mjb ill pm u right now thanks

 

[El Matavenados]

I've never trained a pointer, so take this all with a grain of salt. If I were in your shoes, I would analyze the cause of the problem, the resulting symptoms, and try to think of creative ways to bring the dog through it. Of course, we can't do this for you over the internet, but maybe it will help you as you help your dog. The advice about joining NAVHDA is good, and there are chapters close or close-ish to you.

It seems to me that your dog might be experiencing (at least) one main issue: fear of leaving you (safety) for the unknown (where bad things happened). That issue was caused by a very bad experience. My thought is that you might be able to overcome this with lots of good experiences, in lots of different areas. Good experiences are rewards. That is, rewards cause you (or the dog!) to categorize a given experience as "good". Think about risk vs. reward, or effort vs. reward. With puppies, we reward the behavior we want with a high-value prize (food, praise, tug toys, or whatever).

So if I were you, I would find a flat, featureless field (like a soccer field, or parking lot), and plant a bird in it. With the dog on a long lead, let him find the bird, and if he points it, go through what you normally would (whoa, flush, shoot, whatever), without letting the dog make a mistake for which he has to be corrected. Then praise him up like he just won the nationals, and give him a high-value reward (whatever that is for your dog). If that was too hard (dog makes a mistake that needs correction), simplify the task/expectation to the point where he is highly successful, every time, earning the big reward. Gradually increase distance until he displays the behavior you want consistently at a distance. When you have the distance, start working on increasing the difficulty of the terrain, but at short distances. Add in 1 element at a time, exposing the dog to a multitude of terrain types and distances. The key would be to keep it all as positive as possible while maintaining high levels of success and good performance. Make sure that you don't put the dog anywhere near a negative experience (cacti, or other scary stuff) until he has the confidence and ESTABLISHED BEHAVIOR in a non-scary environment. When the behavior is established, you can SLOWLY re-introduce scary stuff like cholla. The goal, though, would be to teach the dog that the reward is worth any risk. But if the reward does not outweigh the risk, or outweigh the effort required to obtain it, they will give up- much like human children!

Again, I've only trained 1 dog in my life, and he's a retriever, and I have 0 experience with pointers. But this how I would attempt to solve the problem if I didn't have access to counsel from someone who had been in this situation before. Good luck!