Newbie subject. Bow first, riffle second.

[Wildgame]

I would imagine there are plenty of new big game Hunters on this site. But even if you are not new, feel free to chime in.

Let me know if this make sense to you or if, I am missing something.

After reviewing the options of bow and riffle hunting. I think I am going to start hunting big game (deer & pig) with a bow instead of a riffle. Here is why:

Pros.
1)Longer hunting time in the field..AO tags follow by the general season.
2)More options for locations with AO
3)I think I can learn more about deer by hunting in different areas of CA.
4)Easier locations for practice..all I need is a max open field of up to 70-80 yards...of course in a legal place to do it. A riffle shooting range over 150yrds is hard to find around here, how da heck are you supposed to practice 200+yards shots? got to drive to the freaking desert.
5)Cheaper practice. Re-usable arrows and target.
6)Lighter weight to carry around while scouting and hunting.
7)Committing to learn hunting with a bow for an entire season would be easier than trying to do both.

Cons
1)The chances of actually getting closer to a deer will be very slim with my experience and depending on the location.
2)Although it might seem a Bow is a less expensive of an investment, it really is not much less. I am looking at up to 1k+ for a decent Bow plus extras. A decent riffle other than Savage is about 1K then there is the ammo.
3)A bow, although lighter, seems pretty cumbersome to carry and to go thru bushes quietly with.
4)May be a little more of a learning curve.


.I am more focus on the process and the experience. So not landing a deer or a pig the first year is expected...but then again..from time to time, a blind squirrel finds a nut.

Thoughts?

 

[Aeon]

Do both,

You might not get a deer for years with either weapon. We all start some place. You don't even know the up and down sides yet!!!!

 

[TheGDog]

Do Both. You'd be surprised what you can do!

I went from never having hunted, to taking 2 with rifle and 1 with bow in the first 4 years time since starting. This year, my only shot opportunity happened in Bow season. Little dink forkie buck ducked the 40yd shot last freakin' second and it quite literally went just barely over his back! Even though I didn't managed to score this year... if it were not for that Bow action, I'd have not seen any action this year when a weapon was in my hand (I did have some times where they crossed the road in front of my vehicle uring the drive in, in the black of morning, Doh!). And had while hunting for Rabbits after deer season passed, while holding my .17 HMR on some shooting sticks, turned my head to look over my right arm (with my mesh Ghillie Suit on, huddle-up against a scrub oak so I was blended in nicely) and was like "Oh! Well Hello There!" And proceeded to watch her feed until she got directly behind me (maybe 35yds away), where she finally noticed the smell of the shot Rabbit at my feet and beat-cheeks back into the brush, hehe!

This year.. the powers at be freakin' decided it was totally OK to do some road work on the acces road in there... starting on the first two weeks of the General SEason!!! (I SOOO call Shenanigans!! on that one!)


As it was told to me... if anything... look at attempting to take one with a Bow as a good chance to get out there just before Rifle Season and better know the area of your focus. The more time scouting, the better! Also, there's a higher chance of not running into anybody else while you're out there since Bow is less popular. Meaning that the deer at that time are less pressured.

While you're out there, when you're sitting on an area, make note of everything... but most specifically, make note of which way the wind travels... and how that changes during the hours of the day. Also, make note of how long you can remain in a particular sit spot until the shadows move enough that you have to move. Know these things so you can plan accordingly. When the wind does it's changing of direction, perhaps you have another spot in that area that lends itself better to a wind blowing in that other direction, etc. Or maybe you've noticed they tend to traverse the area in one direction in the morning, then one direction in the PM. Or maybe you've only seen them pass by in the mornings at that certain spot, but never in the PM, etc.

Learn how to sit down, backed up against something that breaks up your outline, in the shade, without your scent blowing in the direction you expect them to come in from, and don't make a sound, and don't freaking move... for several hours at a time!

NOTE: I noticed something in what you stated above so I just want to make sure you're aware of something here... with a regular General Tag... you can hunt both in the Archery Season Dates, then..if you were not successful there, you can then, in that same zone your Tag is for, proceed to then hunt there in the General Season firearms date range. And if you like, you can opt to use that Bow during that date range as well. I want to make sure you do not think you have to purchase an AO only tag in order to use your Archery Gear. You do not. I did not know/understand this my first year,so I thought I had to buy both of those tags. You do not. The only difference is the AO Tag allows you the ability to hunt with Archery Gear in ANY of the Non-Premium (i.e. over-the-counter) zones you want in the entire state. But if you don't have the hookups to hunt elsewhere anyway.. you totally DO NOT need to purchase a separate AO tag. Hope that made sense, I wish somebody would have explained that better to me, hence trying to pay it forward.

It's actually much more expensive to hunt with arrows. At least where I go anyway. If you miss... the Earth, Grass and Oak Leaves (where I go) just swallows-up the arrows whole. POOF! They vanish without a trace. And with quality carbon-fiber arrows (I happen to use Maxima Reds) and quality broadheads (G5 Montec), I think I calculated it equates to $17 buck a pop when you miss and don't recover the arrow! So keep that in mind and feel damn sure of the shot before you let one go!

And uh... WTH kinda rifle are you spendin' $1K on? Very much NOT necessary to spend that much for a perfectly fine hunting rifle and optic. That rifle WILL end up getting scratches and wear on it.

Truthfully, I'd say get yourself a kill under your belt with rifle first. Then, once you've got that out of the way, then try to get one with bow. You'll require a heckuva lot more practice with bow than you will with rifle. Also... seriously... I'd definitely recommend checking the videos done by Bow Ninja Hunting - YouTube Channel
Either way? Definitely recommend getting a 3D Leafy concealment suit!

 

[TheGDog]

P.S. It's more tiresome to carry around a bow then it is your rifle. At least... it is for me since I don't have a bow-sling... so when you're hiking in to your area... lotta times you've got to rotate your bow toward the sky and hold it with the string pointing up towards the sky so the damn bushes don't snag and fray your bow-string! It's expensive to have your bow re-strung!

 

[Wildgame]

NOTE: I noticed something in what you stated above so I just want to make sure you're aware of something here... with a regular General Tag... you can hunt both in the Archery Season Dates, then..if you were not successful there, you can then, in that same zone your Tag is for, proceed to then hunt there in the General Season firearms date range. And if you like, you can opt to use that Bow during that date range as well. I want to make sure you do not think you have to purchase an AO only tag in order to use your Archery Gear. You do not. I did not know/understand this my first year,so I thought I had to buy both of those tags. You do not. The only difference is the AO Tag allows you the ability to hunt with Archery Gear in ANY of the Non-Premium (i.e. over-the-counter) zones you want in the entire state. But if you don't have the hookups to hunt elsewhere anyway.. you totally DO NOT need to purchase a separate AO tag. Hope that made sense, I wish somebody would have explained that better to me, hence trying to pay it forward.

And uh... WTH kinda rifle are you spendin' $1K on? Very much NOT necessary to spend that much for a perfectly fine hunting rifle and optic. That rifle WILL end up getting scratches and wear on it.

Truthfully, I'd say get yourself a kill under your belt with rifle first. Then, once you've got that out of the way, then try to get one with bow. You'll require a heckuva lot more practice with bow than you will with rifle. Also... seriously... I'd definitely recommend checking the videos done by Bow Ninja Hunting - YouTube Channel
Either way? Definitely recommend getting a 3D Leafy concealment suit!

Great points.

*I was considering the AO tag precisely because I can hunt in ANY of the non premium zones as you mentioned. Giving me the opportunity to increase my chances of finding a deer. I do understand that I can also use my General tag for hunting with a bow. I am attending the 02/23 event, and I will ask the DFW to make sure I fully understand. Thank you.

*About the cost of the Riffle...long story short..I am left handed and my options are not that many. I don't think I should shoot a right handed bolt action riffle. I would prefer to avoid having to cross my arm over the scope or juggle another way to reload. I figured if I am going to buy a riffle it should suit my basic needs.

The best value package (scope included) I found in left handed is a Savage 111 Trophy Hunter XP..$629. I can probably find the Savage for a little less. My other rifle option is the Tikka lite T3x stainless steel $849 but they charge an extra $100 for a lefty, No I don't need Stainless steel but no many other options in lefty. So out the door with ammo and extras I estimated a $800 to $1000+ on a rifle....I am willing to pay a couple of hundred more for what I believe to be a better life time lasting rifle, the Tikka.

I also I thought about finding a used rifle in CA...well good luck finding a used lefty..it could take me a year. If you can think of any other good value options for a lefty, please feel free to share. But I looked hard.

I would prefer not to have to buy a rifle and a bow during my first season. It seems too much to learn..but YES a rifle would give me a much better chance and I am still considering it.

Thanks again for the comments it really helps me to get a different prospective on how to get started.

 

[Bowman]

What deer zone are you mainly going to concentrate.
Either sex with bow is easier.
But not easy. Bow hunting is tough.
But doable. And lots bow choices.
Rifle is easier than bow but also is tough. What Aeon said is about it.
Thought about getting into small game and upland game first.
Then work your way into big game.

 

[TheGDog]

Savage Trophy Hunter XP...Yup... that's what I got for my first deer rifle. Did not let me down when luck finally smiled upon me and the moment finally came! 1yr and 13days after I began my quest. When it comes, It's a day you will remember forever!

 

[Bowman]

Nice buck

 

[TheGDog]

Plus... you're going to need to save some money on that rifle, because what you need even more is a quality hunting pack, that's comfortable and well made, and big enough for all the things you'll need to or want to bring with you.

If you go cheap on the pack... it can hurt you... badly... here is a pic of the pack rash I got carrying out that first deer in that P.O.S. AlpZ backpack I first had. This pack-rash sprung up in 3 Days time afterward. The hip-belt on that pack kept loosening back up during the hike-out so I was constantly re-tightening the piss out of it! Here you can see the results of doing that. ALL that reddened skin... eventually scabbed/died/fell-off as the blistering spread later.

I subsequently picked up a used Badlands 2200, which worked well, but still didn't seem quite comfortable enough on the packouts, and didn't have enough space for me to put tent and bivvy inside it. So I eventually picked up a Kifaru EMRII. I like it because it's big enough to carry everything and the kitchen sink, and seems to hold the weight pretty well. And I can carry everything out at once, if I choose to.

 

[Wildgame]

What deer zone are you mainly going to concentrate.
Either sex with bow is easier.
But not easy. Bow hunting is tough.
But doable. And lots bow choices.
Rifle is easier than bow but also is tough. What Aeon said is about it.
Thought about getting into small game and upland game first.
Then work your way into big game.

I have not decided the zone yet...still researching. YES! either sex seems a reasonable way to improve the chances just to find them and learn. I already hunt upland and small game and yes it really helped.
You are right, it is going to be hard no doubt about it. I don't expect to harvest a deer anytime soon. But it wouldn't make sense to go hunting empty handed..so it is either a rifle or a bow.

A question for you...if you rifle hunt : What is the average distance that you had a chance to take a deer from ? 100yrds ? 200yrds? I understand it depends on the zone you hunt and the situation.
The reason I ask, is because IF I start with a Rifle is very likely, I will be well prepared to comfortably take a 150yrd shot. That is the distance that I could practice before the season begins based on the shooting range available to me.

Thanks.

 

[Sdhunt17]

Savage Trophy Hunter XP...Yup... that's what I got for my first deer rifle. Did not let me down when luck finally smiled upon me and the moment finally came! 1yr and 13days after I began my quest. When it comes, It's a day you will remember forever!
View attachment 38277

thick forky. the closer horn look like a blade.

 

[Baller]

You can get plenty of capable bow and rifle packages totaling $1k for the BOTH.

So doing both makes sense as your skills improve you can upgrade either/both while keeping a capable backup.

Spend more on good boots and/or a pack that carries meat. I just upgraded to a Mystery Ranch pack that has a meat shelf. The price was high but worth it imo. I cant stress enough how a good pair of boots and pack will help you hunt better. Not to mention good glass and a good rangefinder...

So spend the money where it counts.

A good PSE or Diamond RTS setup coupled with a Ruger American Predator combo (Pick your caliber) and you are the shakiest leg in both those equations as they are ready to kill outta the box without breaking the bank. Then you have more money for boots. pack, glass and rangefinder which you will ALWAYS use no matter weapon of choice.

 

[Sdhunt17]

You can get plenty of capable bow and rifle packages totaling $1k for the BOTH.

So doing both makes sense as your skills improve you can upgrade either/both while keeping a capable backup.

Spend more on good boots and/or a pack that carries meat. I just upgraded to a Mystery Ranch pack that has a meat shelf. The price was high but worth it imo. I cant stress enough how a good pair of boots and pack will help you hunt better. Not to mention good glass and a good rangefinder...

So spend the money where it counts.

A good PSE or Diamond RTS setup coupled with a Ruger American Predator combo (Pick your caliber) and you are the shakiest leg in both those equations as they are ready to kill outta the box without breaking the bank. Then you have more money for boots. pack, glass and rangefinder which you will ALWAYS use no matter weapon of choice.

i second PSE.
good bow for under 700.
PSE came out with some midlevel bows with sight/quilver/stabalizer.

i have the drive X. i put longer front and side bars but still run the og sight. shoots true. you can adjust the limbs i have the 70# and it can go down to 40#. i shoot 55#

 

[Wildgame]

2019 PSE Drive 3B for 699.00 is where I am with the bow. That's right on my prince range and I liked it. I tried it at the shop. I tried several brands.

Nice pics guys!

Tell me about boots. For Southern Cal, mostly.

 

[Sdhunt17]

2019 PSE Drive 3B for 699.00 is where I am with the bow. That's right on my prince range and I liked it. I tried it at the shop. I tried several brands.

Nice pics guys!

Tell me about boots. For Southern Cal, mostly.

sometimes i where walmart rubber boots if im doing small game and not really hiking and when im doing long hikes i use some danners i found in my old army stuff. the next boots im looking are Cameron Hans boots by under amour.

 

[Baller]

I am partial to the Crispi lineup but everyone has their favorites. Many good choices. You can get the flex level you like and ankle support. I personally like/use the Summit GTX but the Thor is very popular (1 level flex stiffer than mine) as well. everyone's foot is different so go on youtube as most boot mfg have their lineups posted. No matter the boot, I always use a good insole and it is as comfy, if not comfier, than good tennis shoes. I would say/argue it is the most critical for long term success.

Just don't get the $29 discounted boots at Big 5. You will hate yourself when you go on your first 5-10 mile adventure.

 

[TheGDog]

Good pair of Boots, yes! AND ALSO... kick-butt Socks and Liner socks! Just throwing it out there since my feet crack and get blisters easily... best combo yet has been Darn Tough socks (yes, that's the brand name) coupled with FoxRiver liner socks. With the liner socks you can hike TWICE as long before cracks and blisters happen!

For me... that means it's not bad until the second time of coming out of there in a single day, such as if I decide to leave the tent and stuff... and come back in for it later to make carrying to the meat out lighter.

It's like 5 or 6 miles each way... so let's say instead of 10 miles.... it becomes 20 miles. Always make sure you have a change of socks with you! When the socks you're sporting become just too wet with sweat for the evap process to keep up... pull over and switch 'em out. It'll give you much more range before blistering/cracking. Do NOT hike when your socks are wet, if you can help it. And you'll want to carry a big ziploc with you to stuff the more ripe gear into it while you're in or near your hunting area, to be scent cautious. For me I stop about 1000yds away from my sit spot and take off the sweatied up shirt that was in contact with my skin during the hike up, to swap it out for a fresh one, and reapply the unscented deodorant. Usually during hike-in its cool enough the socks are ok. But sometimes on the hike-out, during reDONKulously hot weather (been out there when it was 116 F one time, Eek!) even if it's just one time going back out... you just might have to bust a sock change to prevent blistering since sweat build-up can overtake its ability to evaporate it off. Wet socks = grindy fibers against your toes.

 

[TheGDog]

And with bow... when you get to your spot... you stop and take the rangefinder and you start ranging all kindsa of observable landmarks all around your viewable area. And you commit those measurement to memory! That way when something comes walking in, you don't have to mess with rangefinder in the heat of the moment. And for goodness sake DON'T be a Dummy like I was... if the deer is 25yards away... and you have a 20yd pin and a 30yd pin... DO NOT think to yourself, oh, I'll just hold it on the 20yd pin, since it's only 5 more yards, should be fine. Oops... gee... that didn't work, I guess I'll hold it on the 30yd pin..Doh! shoot that doesn't work also. Yeah... if it says 25, you hold it at 25! So when you're practicing with your bow.. make damn sure you practice at all those in-between yardages where you have to eyeball it and hold halfway in-between two pins.

You DON'T want the memory of the "one that got away... twice" haunting your memories!

 

[TheGDog]

RE: Boots for SoCal. My feet are very picky. I bought another pair of the Salomon Quest 4D GTX's, because after 3 years or so I finally wore out the first ones! The only thing I'd caution you on is tread carefully with them on smooth stone or wet stones crossing a creek, especially if it's cold. Other than that minor issue, they're crazy comfortable!

And be sure to get a PEET's Boot Dryer. Everytime after you get back home. Rinse out your boots, then hurry up and put'em on the PEET's. The next day at about the same time it'll be dry and pretty much odor free. Without the PEET's you will NEVER get them odor free! Trust my nose when I tell you this. Even if you're leaving them to dry in the blistering hot sun... without the PEET's it just won't dry without there being a smell in there. Also, re leaving boots to dry in the sun.... DO NOT leave boots with the soles pointing up towards the sun! The sunning will harden the soles from the UV's making them more slippery on harder surfaces like water-polished stone! Again... with the PEET's that problem is solved.

RE: the slippery soles thing... I paid a very dear and painful price for that one. Please learn from my misfortune.

 

[Bowman]

i second PSE.
good bow for under 700.
PSE came out with some midlevel bows with sight/quilver/stabalizer.

i have the drive X. i put longer front and side bars but still run the og sight. shoots true. you can adjust the limbs i have the 70# and it can go down to 40#. i shoot 55#View attachment 38280

I like it, my bear attitude is 60-70lbs.
Wish it would go down to 50 while
Practicing. I put a like