Looking for advice for an unexpected hunting dog

[kmnoh19]

I wanted to introduce Oliver. He is 1.5 year old purebred golden retriever. He comes from a long line of show-bred goldens and no known field-bred history or hunting in any of his siblings, parents, cousins, etc.

I am relatively new to hunting: 3rd season, mostly quail, chukar, with unsuccessful deer tags in the past couple of years... D7 was completely shut down and on fire this year.

I bought him to be a family dog that comes with us camping, hiking and fishing (i.e. no work). We took him camping in October and decided to do some target shooting while we were in the middle of nowhere. He seemed to do ok with fireworks on new years (at 5 months old) but I didn't know how he would respond to the gunshots. I started small with a .22 single shot, a tennis ball in hand, with him about 10 yards away, I threw it immediately after firing. We moved up to a .45 within 15 or so shots with no ball, and decided to see how he did with a couple of rounds of 12ga shortly after. Within 2 hours, we shot off a few rounds of my .30-06. Now for the unexpected part: he is chasing the bullets! We moved back down to the .22 because we didn't want to potentially damage his hearing. We went for a hike with the .22, firing randomly into the hillsides and he would run to the dust clouds.

Since then, I've taken him quail hunting on day trips twice. He's off leash all day and staying within 15-30 yards. He watches us and is constantly searching for something but doesn't quite know what he's supposed to be looking for. He did chase a jack and didn't stop when called once I couldn't see him (100+ yards and over a hill). I fired off a round of the 12ga and he came barrelling back over the hill and sat next to me waiting for me to shoot again. The shotgun has become a very effective dog call.

I was hoping for some advice on how to train him to look for quail/small game? I saved a few wings and have tried putting it in a sock but he's more interested in destroying the sock than searching for the quail scent. I'm also a little worried about cactuses and rattlesnakes because he will run though them and play with a snake if he got the chance. I was thinking of getting him boots, a chest protector and doing a rattlesnake avoidance training session. I don't want to go too overboard on training him as a hunting dog since we live in an urban area and don't have as much time as I'd like to go hunting, 3 hours from the nearest hunting spot. I'm looking to get him to be a weekend hunting buddy who might retrieve a quail or a duck here and there. I think he'll do just fine retrieving a duck splashing down in a lake... if he doesn't chomp too hard.

 

[WaterDog]

Your golden is beautiful. There is no sweeter dog on earth than the golden. Fabulous family dog. If I wasn’t a lab guy I’d have goldens. To adequately answer your questions re training it would take a book length response. For what you want a hunting dog for and for the few times you’d hunt him I think it’s not worth trying to train him. It takes a lot of work, time and effort to train a hunting dog and you need to know what you are doing. When he is trained you then have to spend a lot of time reinforcing the training. Being of show stock and at his age I think it doubtful he’ll make a good hunting dog but I don’t know that for sure. He’s already got bad habits which you would have to over come. Resolving bad habits can be tougher than training new habits.
Its obvious he’s not well obedience trained if at all. The first thing you need to do before even considering hunt training is obedience train him. When he took off after that rabbit and didn’t come back on command that’s about the worse that could happen. He’s already got a bad habit - chasing rabbits. In addition to failure to obey a command. The “here” or “come” command is the most important command he needs to know. Obedience to that command will keep him out of trouble and can save his life in certain situations. All training starts with obedience training.
Before you even think about hunt training get him thoroughly obedience trained. After that we can talk about hunting. One last thing , until he is at least obedience trained you should not take him hunting with you. If you do you’ll create more bad habits and there’s a good chance he’ll get hurt.
For now enjoy him as the beautiful family dog he is and get him obedience trained.
One thing I forgot to mention so I’ll add. You should not be shooting guns around him. Do not take him along when you go shooting. He is an untrained, undisciplined, disobedient dog and it is a very dangerous situation for those shooting and for the dog. Someone or the dog will get hurt or killed. I would never take my dog (who is a highly trained and obedient hunter) into any situation involving guns other than hunting. The idea of him chasing bullets as you state makes me cringe. Excellent way to get him killed. Keep him far away from any shooting activities.

 

[MJB]

Have him come to gum shots is a big no no. Correct that now

Find a retriever club near you and do some training days with them

 

[kmnoh19]

WaterDog, Thank you for your concerns. I think I need to clarify a few things. We are constantly working on his obedience. His come, stay, down, heel, place, retrieve (dummies and toys only, so far), and give are pretty good, however, we are still working on obeying during high level distraction situations. He was pretty far from me when he took off after the rabbit and I agree it's not a good idea to have him come to gunshots but it did get his attention while he was over a hill and out of sight. I have been looking into possibly doing e-collar training for situations when he is out of verbal range.

Also, when I said he was chasing bullets, he would run to where we shot when released (go get it or find it). We would never fire in his direction and when I said we fired randomly into the hillside, I meant when he was not expecting it... we weren't just spraying the area with lead jellybeans. I have never trained a hunting dog so my surprise was how he didn't react negatively to the sound of the gunshots. My previous 3 dogs were always terrified by fireworks and gunshots.

I never intended him to be a hunting dog when I got him and I know he is not ready to go out with other hunters, dogs, shooters and he has not. I've only taken him out when it was just the two of us and no other hunters, guns or people around. He loves to work and I have been trying to channel his energy and motivation towards being able to come hunting with me when I do have time to go out. Also, when I said I don't want to go overboard on the hunting dog training, I meant I don't want to invest thousands of dollars on training since we won't go out that often. I am more than willing to invest my time and I've read a couple of books on training a hunting dog. I was just looking for tips or advice from anyone that has experience since I'm relatively new to this. The last thing I want is for him or someone to get hurt or worse.

MJB, I would love to take him to a training day somewhere to have the distractions of other dogs/people and undergo some training myself, from people who have more experience than me. I'm open to any recommendations anyone has in the LA/OC/SD area and maybe around Riverside on the weekends. I was reading through the forums and I was planning on taking him down to the High on Kennels rattlesnake aversion training.

 

[WaterDog]

Thanks for clarifying, things appear better than what it appeared in your original post. If you are going to train you need to educate yourself on how to train, you need to train the trainer. You can do this with books and videos. I know you said you read a couple so use what you learned. Two books I like are Water Dog and the 10 minute retriever. Water Dog is an old old classic but is still a relevant training guide today. I found the 10 Minute retriever good also. There are many more out there but those two are a couple I’ve used. Ive only used one video called Retriever Fever by Shawn Dustin. It’s excellent. I know Shawn personally and he is an outstanding pro trainer. Use to have his training facility in California but moved it to Montana. His video you have to order through his web site Dustin Retrievers. I’m sure others can suggest books and videos too.
Obedience is still the foundation of hunt training so keep working on that. An E collar is an excellent training tool but I am hesitant to recommend one because if a person doesn’t know what they are doing you can completely ruin a dog very quickly. I know an idiot who completely ruined a trained dog by misuse of an E collar. I still say keep him away from people shooting unless it’s during a training session involving gun fire.
I don’t know of any retriever clubs in the southern part of the state but they are an excellent to train with other people like yourself.
There’s so much to training I don’t know where to start. I think it would be more helpful if you asked specific training questions Rather than broad general questions. Good luck. Keep us up dated how it’s going.

 

[Aeon]

get this

https://finelineretrievers.com/shop/ols/products/fowl-dawgs-1

follow it step by step and do not skip steps. live long happy life.

good luck

 

[kmnoh19]

Thanks for clarifying, things appear better than what it appeared in your original post. If you are going to train you need to educate yourself on how to train, you need to train the trainer. You can do this with books and videos. I know you said you read a couple so use what you learned. Two books I like are Water Dog and the 10 minute retriever. Water Dog is an old old classic but is still a relevant training guide today. I found the 10 Minute retriever good also. There are many more out there but those two are a couple I’ve used. Ive only used one video called Retriever Fever by Shawn Dustin. It’s excellent. I know Shawn personally and he is an outstanding pro trainer. Use to have his training facility in California but moved it to Montana. His video you have to order through his web site Dustin Retrievers. I’m sure others can suggest books and videos too.
Obedience is still the foundation of hunt training so keep working on that. An E collar is an excellent training tool but I am hesitant to recommend one because if a person doesn’t know what they are doing you can completely ruin a dog very quickly. I know an idiot who completely ruined a trained dog by misuse of an E collar. I still say keep him away from people shooting unless it’s during a training session involving gun fire.
I don’t know of any retriever clubs in the southern part of the state but they are an excellent to train with other people like yourself.
There’s so much to training I don’t know where to start. I think it would be more helpful if you asked specific training questions Rather than broad general questions. Good luck. Keep us up dated how it’s going.

Sorry, I know I'm a horrible writer. Sometimes things don't come out how it sounds in my head. I'll try to ask more specifics going forward.

Thank you for the suggested reads. I'm always looking for new ideas that I think might work for him. There are some pretty generic books out there and some of what I've read wouldn't work for him or I wouldn't want to do it. There was an article somewhere that suggested putting nails in toys so they learn not to bite hard. Not really a fan of that. I bought a dummy with bumps that supposeldy should be uncomfortable for him but it's not working. I've tried the hand/glove in mouth and he doesn't bite me or the glove so I guess my first question would be for ideas to stop the hard biting?

 

[Aeon]

ummm is he already leaving marks on dead birds?

 

[kmnoh19]

ummm is he already leaving marks on dead birds?

Nope, he hasn't gotten to the "real bird" phase yet. He doesn't quite get what he should be searching for/retrieving yet. The wing in a sock or scent on a dummy hasn't cued him towards searching for birds. My original post was an introduction to Oliver, how I didn't intend on him being a hunting dog, how he reacted to the sound of gunshots and for advice and other ideas on getting him to look for quail/small game with some concerns I had. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear... however, he does bite other things pretty hard, the training dummy has a few teeth marks on it already. WaterDog's comments made me realize that I need to focus a bit more on training before transitioning into the hunting/retrieving phase. He's always been "in training" but it wasn't until we went camping and saw how excited he was to working commands and indifferent to gunshots when we went target shooting that I thought of gearing the training more towards hunting.

On a side note, he would make a good game warden k-9 though. We were just trying to get him used to the gunshots and on several occasions, after we said "find it" (trying to make the sound of the gun "fun" for him), he came back with the wad from the shotgun. I'm wondering if I inadvertently trained him to the scent of gunpowder.

 

[Aeon]

ok.. do not worry about how hard he bites on anything.

just get the video i posted and follow it

 

[WaterDog]

He may or may not be a hard mouth, I can’t tell from the information. I’ve been fortunate none of my labs have been hard mouth. Here’s what I suggest get some training books and videos. Study them and then formulate a training plan. It appears that you are do8ng a little bit of this and a little bit of that. You really need a training plan. Continue reinforcing his obedience training. Work towards getting him to the point where you give him a command and he responds immediately- sit, down, stay, heel, come. Daily short training will get him there. Multiple sessions a day is even better. But again keep them short. After each session have him do something that is fun for him. My dogs love to retrieve so after a training session I will throw bumpers a short distance as fast as they can retrieve, laugh, talk to then and get them all worked up. I get as excited as them. They will associate the training sessions with the fun to come. They like the training sessions because they know they are going to get to play and have fun. (Shawn Dustin taught me that) Training is stressful, the fun afterwards resolves the stress.
Start doing a lot of retrieving with him. Make him sit at your side, throw a bumper, don’t allow him to go until you release him. When he brings the bumper back make him sit again and give the command “give” and take the bumper. Don’t worry about dead or live birds yet.Its not as easy as what I’m saying, that is why you need to get some books/videos to educate yourself. For right now don’t worry about hard mouth. just work on the retrieving. My labs favorite thing in life is retrieving. Hardly a day goes by that I don’t throw a few bumpers or balls.
One last thing when you send him on a retrieve the command should be his name not fetch. So in your case when you release him you forcefully say OLIVER! The reason is if you are hunting from a blind and there are multiple dogs and you commanded fetch, they may all take off to retrieve. If the command is their name then the only dog that goes is Oliver or what ever name is called. “Back” is sometimes used but that’s a whole other explanation.
So in summary get/read some training materials, formulate a training plan, keep working obedience and retrieving, have fun and make it fun for him. Also get some training equipment, a few suggestions include short lead, long long lead, a bunch of bumpers, a whistle (you will teach him whistle commands), an E collar (hold off on that for awhile). There’s lots more but those are the basics. Lastly forget that thing about using nails
very bad idea.
I am far far far from being any kind of expert in dog training. I have trained a few of my hunting dogs successfully and had one professionally trained and another partially professionally trained. I have worked with professional trainers training my dogs and I can tell you the pros are amazing.
Have fun, let’s us know how it goes.

 

[Snake Charmer]

I won't go into the long replies that have been left thus far but I will say that field bred goldens are few and far between in this part of the world so you have many miles to cross imo to get a bird dog out of what you have. Nothing is impossible but some goals are just not worth the effort. I'd be glad to snake train your dog this spring and at that point evaluate its prey drive and give my opinion. Best guess at this point is that you can probably train it to go pick something up and bring it back but imagine what kind of grooming you will have to do to keep that dog house worthy otherwise.

 

[stikbrandon]

Just keep him by your side until you down a bird then send him in. He’s your house dog that you want to go to the field with.

if you hunt enough he will pick unit up on his own.

you don’t need dog to push to pile. You need a dog that knows that you are hunting and wants to be with you in the blind or flushing birds.