Barnes Copper Bullet FAILURE - Copper Super Fail!

[msteele711]

I think the picture of the bullet compared to the unused cartridge tells a story. I am shocked to see this come out of a young pig, shot in the heart, taken at 125 yards. This is a Barnes 165 TSX Weatherby 300 Mag. There should have been a hole the size of my fist on the exit side of that pig.

I dug that bullet out of flesh! Stunned. More stunned to see that bullet in it's shape than actually hunting. Don't know what to say now that I have TEN BOXES of that Ammo!!!!

What am I going to do now that I have lost complete confidence in that ammo. Certainly going to have to go up to 180.

You can bet I will be writing Barnes and Weatherby along with several phone calls so they can educate me on what happened. If I had not hit that pig in the heart it would have ran up and over a canyon and perished in a couple hours. Did I say I was stunned?





Thx

mike

 

[Nicholas909]

Was this a factory load or was this a hand load? If so what was your charge?

 

[msteele711]

I am leaving my initial post intact with no editing on purpose. This journey is a learning curve for me. That is what is so cool about it. So the last time I went out hunting, I shot some pigs at close range (under 150 yards) and shot placement caused some considerable damage. Before that, I shot a Lazeronni Warbird which did fist size exit wound damage (lead). So my baseline was skewed.

This was not a failure. The Copper Bullet did exactly what it was designed to do.

My expectation was to see an exit hole or see that animal POP over. Small hole, lucky (I mean great) shot. Did the job.

After this conversation I am moving up to 180. I have a deer hunt scheduled for end of May so I better get really good shot placement.

EXTRA SHOUT OUT to Ryan of Barnes who was super nice, informative, patient, and really explained a ton of stuff to me. He is sending me a DVD to do some homework on their bullets so I don't get so excited next time..LOL

Weird how I sat there for 20 minutes talking about copper vs lead.

Priceless real world, in the field, use case example to learn from!

 

[msteele711]

Factory Load. I have no idea on all the powder combinations. Just know that that bullet is designed to go 3320 fps and at that range should have had some force. I know them pigs are tough but wow...

 

[Nicholas909]

So this was the The Weatherby brand ammo with the Barnes 165gr TSX bullet? It's still a little odd that it didn't mushroom more at the distance.

 

[NBK]

It is very strange what bullets do and all brands and models fail at some point. Every incident is different lead or copper. I have also seen some bizarre paths taken upon bullet strikes on animals.

You have one data point collected. Curious to see if a pattern emerges or if this is an anomaly. I suspect the latter.

I think it very strange that you recovered a Barnes with the incredible velocities that the 300 Weatherby produces.

Cool info and glad you spoke with Barnes. They are a good company and certainly the standard for copper bullets.

 

[El Matavenados]

I'm sorry if I step on any toes, but if Barnes told you that the bullet pictured, after having been fired out of a 300 Wby mag at that range, did what it was designed to do, then their design is wrong. That certainly doesn't resemble the expansion they advertise. If they said this one was a failure, and atypical of the performance that should be expected, then that's another story. The problem is that I've read statements by a guide who posts here implying that this is a frequent experience. I can't speak with any authority in the subject, but I'm concerned.

 

[msteele711]

NBK your comments spot on to what my conclusion was.

I still say WOW in my mind. I was more amazed to find that bullet in the middle of the pig. Crazy how the little things like that get your attention. I am stuck with Copper in CA and other states have it 'preferred' so I better get used to it.

Last hunt those bullets blew off two hind legs of one and then it stood there, final shot went through back of head displacing upper jaw. That was what I expected. Chances are I am using the same box of Ammo.

The pig must have been running at 3,320 feet per second. Pigs must have cold hard hearts. Pigs have thick skin. Technically, in my small mind I should never have found that round.

Had a long chat with the Barnes guy and will have to review his DVD when I get it. I sent him that PIC which tells it's own story.

Thought I would share that with you guys as an FYI

If a storm comes through then we might run back up and I'll try again...otherwise I will certainly figure it out on Deer at the end of May. Now I am intrigued so there goes another aspect to pay attention to...

Sent the PIC to them have not received a reply yet...will keep you posted.

 

[NBK]

I can't speak with any authority in the subject, but I'm concerned.

Don,

I would not be concerned. The bullets are spectacular on all game from coyote up through moose and bear! And the expansion is explosive and consistent.

With that said, all bullets fail (someone just mentioned that). Every game animal is different. We are not shooting into a controlled media. We are shooting into live media and all bets are off regarding bullet behavior for the most part.

So here is a quote form another guide, one of the best pig killers this state has ever see. Bert Claassen, who has wittnessed personally well over 5,000 pigs fall. Bert is quoted as saying - "the Barnes "X" is the best bullet I have ever seen".

The picture is of Snake Charmer and me enjoying the benefits of our friendship with Bert. He is seen in the background. The photo was taken on the "Work Ranch" in Paso Robles. With out doubt, my favorite pig haunt on the planet!

 

[El Matavenados]

I can't speak with any authority in the subject, but I'm concerned.

Don,

I would not be concerned. The bullets are spectacular on all game from coyote up through moose and bear! And the expansion is explosive and consistent.

With that said, all bullets fail (someone just mentioned that). Every game animal is different. We are not shooting into a controlled media. We are shooting into live media and all bets are off regarding bullet behavior for the most part.

So here is a quote form another guide. One of the best pig killers this state has ever see. Bert Claassen, who has wittnessed personally well over 5,000 pigs fall. Bert is quoted as saying - "the Barnes "X" is the best bullet I have ever seen".

The picture is of Snake Charmer and me enjoying the benefits of our friendship with Bert. He is seen in the background. The photo was taken on the "Work Ranch" in Paso Robles. With out doubt, my favorite pig haunt on the planet!

Nice! What if this particular round didn't get a full charge of powder? Maybe muzzle velocity was only 2000 or something like that...

 

[Aeon]

Assuming that it was not a short load you put 3000ft-lb into a young pig. That pig was never going Anyplace!

Grab your pliers and pull a bullet out of the same box.

10% less powder does not equal 10% less power. As pressure drops powder falls on its face


When you cleaned the pig did you notice if the organs were liquefied?

 

[msteele711]

I appreciate all the feedback, please keep it coming. Great to learn from you guys. I fully expected that pig to do a flip or something. Maybe I'm all hyped by the brochure and all. It did drop him in his tracks.

Now that I have something else to think about I will keep the study going. These were not home made but Factory purchased box but I am buying them from the internet. Doubt someone repacked and sold in brand name box.

It was a total lucky, free hand shot, standing just after I put the truck in park, turned it off, jumped, pulled my rifle. My buddy went to find a branch and lost his shot in those few seconds. All happened with minutes of sundown so it got dark fast. De-boning in the dark never expected to find that bullet, just kinda popped out. Did not even think to study the whole bullet until I sat there thinking about it all. Tossed the bullet in the meat bag so did not see it again until Sunday.

 

[longbowhunter2]

check out this video , interesting

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk5m3NAQ_R0[/youtube]

I did not see the manufacturer specify for 300 mag but I could have missed it.

Ghost

 

[msteele711]

That might be the DVD he is mailing me...300 Mag at 7:11 of that video...that is some interesting data. Might just have performed as designed and just did not mushroom.

 

[Snake Charmer]

I'm thinking that it's a ricochet, any one else have any thought's ?

 

[Bonejour]

I've read that bullets can be traveling at velocities above the optimal needed to open, but that is not consistent with its failure to pass through and through the animal. With respect to that, the soft tissue plate around a pig's shoulders and neck is extremely tough in the engineering sense of the word, meaning it can absorb enormous energy without failing. My guess is the bullet's velocity left it only partially opened and that the soft tissue plate in the far hide caught the bullet like a trampoline. Too bad the light was too low to see the bullet tract and soft tissue bloodshot.

 

[msteele711]

Snake Charmer I don't care what Forest Gump says, you might be a very smart man. Considering they were running through trees, and that gun has some power, there is a possibility that my first shot which was through some very small trees is the one that hit rather than the second shot that was clear.

That was running through my mind also. It all happens so so fast. Need a camera on my head.

 

[MJB]

So you hit some brush before the pig that will do it........

Copper sucks

 

[NBK]

So you hit some brush before the pig that will do it........

Yep...bullet may have been tumbling on entry. The rear of the bullet is deformed for sure. And the pig is dead for sure too.

Copper is awesome!

 

[msteele711]

I cannot honestly say I hit brush with the second shot but certainly agree it is a possibility. They were in and out of trees and I intentionally was waiting for a clear shot. Of course it was standing, freehand, and all of it happens in seconds.

Your comment about the rear portion of the bullet is very interesting (along with the dead part too). This is all interesting stuff and probably overkill conversation. But what the heck...it's kind of fun.

Here is a PIC to back up NBK's assumption.



That video was interesting.

I think I need more field time to test further...so I better get out there again!

By the way, that young boar is probably the best tasting pig I have ever eaten. Next time I'm bringing he super cooler just in case and keeping that type whole for the butcher.