Copper.....How Good Is It Really?

[ilovesprig]

A long, but good read about copper bullets sent to me from a long time reloader & marksman.

.http://huntingwithnonlead.org/PDFs_Main/WI DNR Copper Bullet Study.pdf

 

[iupa1]

Good info Steve

 

[Nicholas909]

Thanks for that . Very informative

 

[MJB]

Big deal they mushroom, stay together and are accurate......yeah

Ask the guides that see animals killed every day see what they think......I know many guides here in Cali not a one likes them. They were designed for African game where almost every plains game is the size of our elk.

I've been shooting them since Tejon went non lead......I'm not impressed they are too hard I want a bullet to lose 30% of it weight and STAY in the animal

BUT you can shoot them at angles you wouldn't want to shoot with lead and theirs very little meat loss. Bone crushers for sure!

It's all give and take......wait till 2019 deer season lots of deer will die and never be eaten by the hunter.

As to the lead being harmful to humans up bet. I just hope the new cavity back bullets break apart a little to open a wound cavity wider than a .60" but copper is not good for humans either so theirs that....

Hatchet? Neil? Even thought I know their answer they may have some new insight as to where to hit the animal......bones, neck, ect

Flame away.......

 

[NBK]

Big deal they mushroom, stay together and are accurate......yeah

Ask the guides that see animals killed every day see what they think......I know many guides here in Cali not a one likes them. They were designed for African game where almost every plains game is the size of our elk.

I've been shooting them since Tejon went non lead......I'm not impressed they are too hard I want a bullet to lose 30% of it weight and STAY in the animal

BUT you can shoot them at angles you wouldn't want to shoot with lead and theirs very little meat loss. Bone crushers for sure!

It's all give and take......wait till 2019 deer season lots of deer will die and never be eaten by the hunter.

As to the lead being harmful to humans up bet. I just hope the new cavity back bullets break apart a little to open a wound cavity wider than a .60" but copper is not good for humans either so theirs that....

Hatchet? Neil? Even thought I know their answer they may have some new insight as to where to hit the animal......bones, neck, ect

Flame away.......

Haha...I am not smelling what your stepping in MJB!

But for the record, I have never had to shoot a deer more than once with copper projectiles. And last year 3 out of the 7 elk we killed was with lead bullets (premium lead bullets I might add). Each animal took 2-3 shots to kill and all the shots were money shots. That is a trend we have not seen with the copper.

It's ok to be a hater dude. Shoot what works for you.

Stevo - interesting article. The guy took some time and effort.

 

[MJB]

XDL bullets is not getting good reviews for hunting.

Should of used SST like way

 

[NBK]

It's the ELD-X and it certainly has its advantages and disadvantages. I have shot the SST on pigs, deer and antelope. Not so much for the pigs -

I will stick to the devastation that copper has provided me for the last 27 years...

Ask Way what happens when I point my rifle at deer...

But to each his own. Every person walks through life with his or her own experiences. I respect your opinion Mark.

 

[MJB]

John, it's always good talking copper with you. I wish I was behind it like you it has many advantages. I just want a bigger wound channel, and the bullet to stay in the animal. Then I'd be behind it like no other.
I've changed my POI on animals to get the benefits of copper. When it stays in the animal I'm very happy.

Here's the WI DNR on lead good advice on what to eat.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/lead.html

 

[Bonejour]

John, it's always good talking copper with you. I wish I was behind it like you it has many advantages. I just want a bigger wound channel, and the bullet to stay in the animal. Then I'd be behind it like no other.
I've changed my POI on animals to get the benefits of copper. When it stays in the animal I'm very happy.

Here's the WI DNR on lead good advice on what to eat.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/lead.html

Threadjack alert!
This is all good advice, but if you remove all "blood-shot" meat and fat, meaning any tissue that has been damaged by a projectile, your risk of consuming lead from the bullet is negligible. As for lead being found far from the wound tract, that would take enough energy to leave a tract of damaged tissue on its own. Look for a piece of the bullet if you see any bloodshot fat. Alternatively, there is the chest cavity which is a big space and projectiles can disperse more easily in it because it is mostly air as opposed to muscle or bone.
I remove damaged tissue because damaged meat spoils much more rapidly than undamaged meat. But in doing so, any (of my) projectiles are removed. One caveat: I have found shot in the subcutaneous fat of wild pigs during butchering. Just remember, you may not be the first to have shot at the animal.



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[xjon]

but copper is not good for humans either so theirs that....

May I ask why is copper not good for humans? Im sure copper not good to get shot with, but we are talking ingestion correct?

 

[Bonejour]

May I ask why is copper not good for humans? Im sure copper not good to get shot with, but we are talking ingestion correct?

Correct. We are talking about ingestion of a copper fragment. Lead is worse because it is more insidious and more easily absorbed, but copper can damage the internal organs. Copper toxicity is pretty rare and I'm not aware of any reports of human cases resulting from eating game.


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[White Smoke]

Here's one that went through a 250# hog and wound up under the skin on the far side.

 

[ilovesprig]

Jacob's buck was shot with .270 copper (Hornady GMX)......The animal was shot behind the shoulder.....It missed ribs, went thru both lungs, and exited.....95 yd shot and the animal went about 75 yds.....What I didn't like, (which can happen with lead as well), was absolutely zero blood trail.....If this animal would've been in thick habitat versus open country, he could've been tough to find.....He did hump up some, but that was the only indication he was hit.

The hole you see on the animal is the exit wound.

.

 

[KoozeDeer]

Question for you hand loaders shooting copper. I have a few rifles that will not shoot copper at all.. my 22-250 and my 243 will shoot 12 inch groups with some loads @200. Those same rifles shoot fairly decent with lead... 2 to 3 inch groups at 200. Now fortunately the rifle I used this year for deer shoots copper ok. Have you guys noticed a trend that some rifles just won't shoot copper?

 

[ilovesprig]

Chris,

The rifle Jacob was shooting was a Savage Axis ll.....3 years, 3 shots, all copper, 3 bucks.

.

 

[NBK]

The GMX does not produce the trauma that the Barnes X does.

 

[ilovesprig]

John,

As you know, I don't know squat about rifle stuff.....Why is the copper Barnes X better than the copper GMX?.....Does Barnes have it available on a factory load?

 

[TaftHunter]

The GMX does not produce the trauma that the Barnes X does.

I would have to disagree with you John. I do prefer the Barnes, but i do not look down on the GMX bullet. My dad shoots them and I have a couple family members that prefer them. Here is a picture of my cousins buck from a few weeks ago he got in d13, he shot the buck at close to 200 yards. The bullet did its job pretty well, which is expected, especially with a shoulder shot. I have shot deer in the shoulder with Barnes ttsx, and the gmx on my cousins buck did just as much internal damage, and left a bigger exit wound. The cartridge was a 270 Win.

 

[Bowman]

I don't know nothing about shooting copper.this will be new territory for me. But this is what I do know all metals are toxic. Just read the safety data sheets. Bronze and brass can be very very toxic. EG beryllium copper. Rifle barrels are soft unless case hardened or coated with engineering chrome. So expect more Wear. Some case hardened steel are very shallow. It depends on the manufacturer. Chrome can be very thin. 1/2 Mill thick or less.

 

[Bowman]

For as which is better time will tell. I have had deer run 100 yards or more with a lung shot. Using lead. Shoot the shoulder so it can't go any where. Best we can do.