Elk calibers, rifle and stock, and scope

[bubblehide]

A 6.5 CM paired with the right bullet has taken plenty of elk, it's more than capable; given appropriate shot placement. It's the wound channel that kills animals, not caliber. But, a 6.5 CM does limit the distance at which you can reliably kill. I have nothing against larger calibers, and I own several. I am not recoil shy. So for me, I have no issue taking a caliber that thumps my shoulder. But, for those that are recoil shy, I strongly suggest stepping down in caliber. It will help you shoot so much more accurately; which will translate into better placed shots, if you don't rush the shot.

With that said, for me (not you), I'd choose to step down to a 6.5 PRC. But the recoil of the PRC is significantly more than the CM. But, it's something to consider.

Scope wise, I'd get a Maven 1.2

 

[DMAX]

Remington 7 mm mag. Thinking about selling it

 

[skeet]

Can’t beat the 06 and no need for a brake on it save your hearing

 

[Bobevans]

Exactly, brakes are fine if you 100% have time to put good ear pro on but that’s not always realistic in the field

 

[NBK]

Haha, these caliber debates never get old. Truth is, the field doesn’t hand out perfect shot angles, and none of us pull the trigger like a robot. When the shot or the lineup isn’t textbook, a heavier caliber buys you forgiveness—and that’s not bravado, it’s physics. Quartering shots on big critters at real distance aren’t the playground for light bullets. If you really do make surgical shots every single time, by all means run the featherweights. I’m not that perfect, so I like a little insurance.
Because when the dust settles, big holes, deep penetration and devistated bones, translate to more recovered animals. And with today's recoil management technology, there is no reason to let recoil become an excuse regarding heavier or magnum calibers.

For the record, I’m one of the biggest 6.5-mm advocates on this site. They absolutely have a place in the field. If you drop elk with a 6.5, more power to you—no flame intended. I used to be one of those guys myself; I’ve just learned to pack a little more insurance when the angles get ugly and field conditions aren't perfect.

 

[bubblehide]

Because when the dust settles, big holes, deep penetration and devistated bones, translate to more recovered animals. And with today's recoil management technology, there is no reason to let recoil become an excuse regarding heavier or magnum calibers.

Bullet design is what makes big holes, not caliber. If one choses a bullet designed to open up, it simply translates into a huge wound channel with devastating results. As long as the has enough velocity to open up, caliber is irrelevant. The reality is that people that go to shoot calibers that are comfortable for them to shoot, simply shoot more. That translates into much more practice, thus them improving in shooting ability. The difference is glaring when you look at people that are recoil shy shooting large calibers.

A poorly placed shots with a big caliber provides zero forgiveness over an appropriate smaller caliber bullet. Granted. This is Ca, and choices are limited by state regulations. But, the bullet choice for varying common calibers is basically the same.

The disadvantage we have in Ca is literally the limit in bullet choices. Which in turn limit the size of the wound channel. Simply put, copper bullets do not expand like lead. This fact has led to innovation in copper bullets. Newer designs typically involve machining the copper to provide for greater expansion, and subsequently we get much larger wound channels. Lastly, once again, it is wound channels that kills, not kenetic energy.

With that said, I will say this again. I am not opposed to larger calibers. I own and use several. But if I'm going to spend the day shooting, I simply spend much more time shooting smaller calibers, than larger ones.

Nbk is correct on muzzle devices taming recoil, to the point of being able to see impacts. But it comes with a cost. You will either need to wear hearing protection, or suffer hearing loss. Granted the above is true with smaller calibers too, it just takes more time to suffer the same loss.

 

[HATCHET1]

I know a guy who finished with a .380....too soon?

 

[NBK]

A poorly placed shots with a big caliber provides zero forgiveness over an appropriate smaller caliber bullet. Granted. This is Ca, and choices are limited by state regulations. But, the bullet choice for varying common calibers is basically the same.

The disadvantage we have in Ca is literally the limit in bullet choices. Which in turn limit the size of the wound channel. Simply put, copper bullets do not expand like lead. This fact has led to innovation in copper bullets. Newer designs typically involve machining the copper to provide for greater expansion, and subsequently we get much larger wound channels. Lastly, once again, it is wound channels that kills, not kenetic energy.

With that said, I will say this again. I am not opposed to larger calibers. I own and use several. But if I'm going to spend the day shooting, I simply spend much more time shooting smaller calibers, than larger ones.

Nbk is correct on muzzle devices taming recoil, to the point of being able to see impacts. But it comes with a cost. You will either need to wear hearing protection, or suffer hearing loss. Granted the above is true with smaller calibers too, it just takes more time to suffer the same loss.

I completely agree that poorly placed shots are tragic with any caliber. My point is that heavier, deeper-penetrating cartridges provide a much larger margin for effective angles and shot opportunities. Disruptive wound channels remain the key to quick, ethical kills.
Hearing protection is essential and should always be used when firing any center-fire rifle, pistol, or shotgun.

 

[bubblehide]

I completely agree that poorly placed shots are tragic with any caliber. My point is that heavier, deeper-penetrating cartridges provide a much larger margin for effective angles and shot opportunities. Disruptive wound channels remain the key to quick, ethical kills.
Hearing protection is essential and should always be used when firing any center-fire rifle, pistol, or shotgun.

I think we are, for the most part, saying the same thing. I am just looking at the new bullet designs penetration and wound channels data as comparable to larger cartridges; along with selecting a thin walled appropriate led bullet providing simular results; if that is a potential choice, i,e. outside of Ca. However, this is all contingent upon selecting the correct bullet

For example, 10mm use to be the go to bear handgun cartridge with hardcast bullets. The issue was few people shot 10mm well, especially the hotter rounds. Today, we have a selection of machined Cooper bullets in 9mm that perform as well or better than 10mm hardcast. I have both 10mm and 9mm handguns, I shoot the 10mm okay, but I shoot the 9mm soooooooo much more accurately. The 9mm is sooooo much more comfortable to shoot. Thus, stepping down just makes sense, as my performance is so much better, while I don't suffer a loss of bullet performance, in this scenario.

 

[NBK]

I am a fan of the .44 magnum as a backup for bear. I like the 300 grain cast bullets. Back to the bigger is better theory. Specifically if something might have the opportunity to eat me.

But as you may know, a pistol is only good for one thing: to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never put down in the first place!

 

[Snake Charmer]

Something to consider, If things go sideways on your first shot and you have to follow up to stop the animal you probably will not have an ideal shot and using a larger caliber and heavy bullet might give you the penetration you need to stop the animal. I was witness to this years ago when on an elk hunt my friend shot a cow at under seventy five yards with a 7mm Weatherby but his shot was way back and would have resulted in the animal getting away and dieing a long drawn out demise. I was carrying a .338 Win mag at the time and as the cow was exiting almost straight away from us at a slight quartering angle I was able to put a 225 grain Barnes into it just in front of the hind leg the bullet was heavy enough and with enough energy that it went all the way through the animal destroying the lungs and the elk piled up less than 100 yards from where I shot it. I don't think that a smaller caliber and lighter bullet would have been as successful in stopping the animal. I think it would be wise to choose a caliber and bullet that has the ability to stop a wounded animal at bad angles so if it does go bad you still have enough energy and penetration to get bullets into the vital zone.

 

[NBK]

Something to consider, If things go sideways on your first shot and you have to follow up to stop the animal you probably will not have an ideal shot and using a larger caliber and heavy bullet might give you the penetration you need to stop the animal. I was witness to this years ago when on an elk hunt my friend shot a cow at under seventy five yards with a 7mm Weatherby but his shot was way back and would have resulted in the animal getting away and dieing a long drawn out demise. I was carrying a .338 Win mag at the time and as the cow was exiting almost straight away from us at a slight quartering angle I was able to put a 225 grain Barnes into it just in front of the hind leg the bullet was heavy enough and with enough energy that it went all the way through the animal destroying the lungs and the elk piled up less than 100 yards from where I shot it. I don't think that a smaller caliber and lighter bullet would have been as successful in stopping the animal. I think it would be wise to choose a caliber and bullet that has the ability to stop a wounded animal at bad angles so if it does go bad you still have enough energy and penetration to get bullets into the vital zone.

I couldn’t agree more, Fred. The confidence you get when hunting with a .338 in any field condition is unmatched. If the goal is a trophy bull elk, the .338 Win is hard to beat.

 

[180ls1]

I own a 308 mosberg , was a a gift when I was 16 years old, I taken a dozen deer with it. Has short barrel and kicks like a mule.
I have shot a 30-06, when I was young manageable , shot a 375 h and h magman
Not bad , but was in my 20 .
I my research 30 06 has about the same recoil as 7 mm rem. Mag. . I have not made up my mind. I have confidence I can shoot 7 mm mag, I just don't cherish lugging it a round . I wait and see, I may go and try to shoot 7 mm , 7 prc, and 6.5 prc.

Buddy, with that type of track record, I feel like you owe it to the girl to take an elk with her.

A good brake will cut recoil in 1/2, think .243 level. Maybe have the smith work on the trigger a little and upgrade the scope while you're there. It'll do great, especially with your familiarity and history with it.

 

[Bowman]

OK I kind of bending towards a 7 mm rem mag, or 7 mm prc. 338 win. Is a nice caliber.
I want a light rifle and scope. I have to face it guys, my hiking days are over. This may be a blind near a or off a jeep trail.