Thank you all for the advice and encouragement. It was a tough decision to go through with this. Normally I don't like to blow things out of proportion and get mixed up in legal issues. However, considering the possibility of future violence I thought it was necessary this time.
Punched in the face
- Thread starter slugsniper
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F&G Code 2009
(a) A person shall not willfully interfere with the participation of any individual in the lawful activity of shooting, hunting, fishing, falconry, hunting dog field trials, hunting dog training, or trapping at the location where that activity is taking place.
(b) A violation of this section is punishable pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 12000 .
(c) Any person convicted for a violation of this section that occurred within two years of a prior violation of this section which resulted in a conviction is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of not more than one year, by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars ($100) and not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both imprisonment and fine.
(d) This section does not apply to the actions of any peace officer or personnel of the department in the performance of their official duties. This section does not obstruct the rights and normal activities of landowners or tenants, including, but not limited to, farming, ranching, and limiting unlawful trespass.
(e) In order to be liable for a violation of this section, the person is required to have had the specific intent to interfere with the participation of an individual who was engaged in lawful shooting, hunting, fishing, falconry, hunting dog field trials, hunting dog training, or trapping.
(f) For purposes of this section, “interfere with” means any action which physically impedes, hinders, or obstructs the lawful pursuit of any of the above-mentioned activities, including, but not limited to, all of the following:
(1) Actions taken for the purpose of frightening away animals from the location where the lawful activity is taking place.
(2) Placing or maintaining signs, gates, locks, or barricades that prohibit or deny access to lands without authorization from the landowner or lessee or an authorized designee of the landowner or lessee.
(3) Placing food on lands not belonging to the person placing the food for purposes of eliminating the lawful ability to hunt due to the presence of bait, as defined in this code or regulations adopted pursuant to this code.
(a) A person shall not willfully interfere with the participation of any individual in the lawful activity of shooting, hunting, fishing, falconry, hunting dog field trials, hunting dog training, or trapping at the location where that activity is taking place.
(b) A violation of this section is punishable pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 12000 .
(c) Any person convicted for a violation of this section that occurred within two years of a prior violation of this section which resulted in a conviction is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of not more than one year, by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars ($100) and not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both imprisonment and fine.
(d) This section does not apply to the actions of any peace officer or personnel of the department in the performance of their official duties. This section does not obstruct the rights and normal activities of landowners or tenants, including, but not limited to, farming, ranching, and limiting unlawful trespass.
(e) In order to be liable for a violation of this section, the person is required to have had the specific intent to interfere with the participation of an individual who was engaged in lawful shooting, hunting, fishing, falconry, hunting dog field trials, hunting dog training, or trapping.
(f) For purposes of this section, “interfere with” means any action which physically impedes, hinders, or obstructs the lawful pursuit of any of the above-mentioned activities, including, but not limited to, all of the following:
(1) Actions taken for the purpose of frightening away animals from the location where the lawful activity is taking place.
(2) Placing or maintaining signs, gates, locks, or barricades that prohibit or deny access to lands without authorization from the landowner or lessee or an authorized designee of the landowner or lessee.
(3) Placing food on lands not belonging to the person placing the food for purposes of eliminating the lawful ability to hunt due to the presence of bait, as defined in this code or regulations adopted pursuant to this code.
Sorry this happened to you. That guy is a real piece of work. Hopefully, he is going to jail. Well, I am sure the rest of your season will be better.
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Yes, it is wrong............and somewhat selfish......lol.
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Assault, carrying a loaded firearm in his car, adds up to a guy looking for trouble. I carry bear spray on my belt when I’m out, and it’s not for fear of bears. OP I’m really glad you weren’t hurt worse, and thanks for reporting to the sheriff.
steveo007,correct me if i'm wrong but this was at least two years ago during spring turkey
You can right this spot off. Thousands of people troll this site looking for spots and posts just like this. I guarantee there will be trucks at this spot tomorrow because of this thread. To each their own. But in my opinion there is no reason to post pictures of maps on here. Especially knowing some people who frequent this spot for hunting.
Snake Charmer
Happiness is a warm gut pile
Truduct is correct, don't post coordinates it only makes things worse. settle down folks...
You have every right to throw the books at this guy. Being a local to the mountains I know that we have a lot of poaching issues that go on. But I am also a avid hunter and have been harassed by land owners that don’t know where their land stops. Some owners think they own the forest as well and feel they need to regulate. In my opinion this guy has had way too many run ins, with honest law biding hunters and every case I know of is very similar to this encounter. He uses the same line every time” let me see your boot print” or “ you tire tracks were on my land”. This is bullshit and the guy needs to face his charges. It’s not like this is a new issue, it’s been going on for years. Go after him before he hurts or kills a innocent hunter or recreational user. I think this is the straw that broke the camels back. This guy has been know to be hostile for quite some time now. Let justice be served and let’s stop this. Come on he’s driving around the mountain with a loaded weapon trying to regulate federal land.
I would suggest always start recording with your phone at the beginning of any encounter that might get hostile. Usually will calm people down and you can later provide the footage to law enforcement if something happens.
So let's review what we've learned here:
NEVER.... put down your weapon when there is a whack-job aggressive human interacting with you.
Have your own light source readily available to light-blind his butt right back the very second he tries to pull that isht with you. Especially put it on the strobe pattern if you have that.
NOTE: The moment he sucker-punched you... you now met the legal requirement of "fear of clear and imminent danger" to your person. (Do with this information what you will.)
To people that get all aggro and loud like that, I've found that it's very unnerving to them if you respond back to them speaking in a very slow and controlled way. Letting the slow and meticulous pronunciation of your words convey to this MF just how upset you are on the inside. And that they are inches away from some very bad noise going down if they don't change up their tune, but that you are trying hard to control yourself.
If they have half a lick of sense in their heads... they will realize you're a G and change-up their level of aggression quickly. Usually they scramble for some way of doing so that will make them look like less of a beyotch than they really are inside. Some way that helps them save-face.
The fact that they are not invoking a strong reactionary fear response from you will throw them off and be very unnerving to them and they won't know what to make of it. Typically it sends the subliminal message that they are dealing with a person that does not fear them and they will find this very unnerving. For they are perceiving themselves as being very menacing in that moment. Typically they will flare-up with the aggression a little bit more... just to see what you do... then usually they'll figure out a way to trail it back off without losing face.
A key component in this interaction is to stare into their eyes, and to not blink. And with just a hint of a look in your face that kinda conveys that you are controlling yourself from acting out angrily yourself right now. But that all that could change in a moments notice depending on how they proceed.
ALSO: Try to remember to engineer it so the first words out of your mouth in response to them will be something like "Can you help me with something here?" This helps to immediately shifts things away from being an adversarial interaction with them. And helps to take them back down from the offensive. In this instance you might say "Can you help me with something here? I'm trying to understand what you need help with here. What I've gotten from you soo far is that <restate what they said but in a polite way>. Do I have this right? (Get their confirmation). Well... then there's something I'm not understanding here. Something I'm just not getting. I am a bit tired so you'll have to forgive me. But I more than willingly offered you clear proof from my GPS device, that I'm not the person you seek. So I'm not understanding why you're acting this way towards me when I've not treated you with any disrespect. What am I not seeing here?"
OBSERVATION: BTW... These kinds of reactions from people seem to sharply drop off in your life once your chin is covered in grey/white hairs. for some reason. Strange how that works.
NEVER.... put down your weapon when there is a whack-job aggressive human interacting with you.
Have your own light source readily available to light-blind his butt right back the very second he tries to pull that isht with you. Especially put it on the strobe pattern if you have that.
NOTE: The moment he sucker-punched you... you now met the legal requirement of "fear of clear and imminent danger" to your person. (Do with this information what you will.)
To people that get all aggro and loud like that, I've found that it's very unnerving to them if you respond back to them speaking in a very slow and controlled way. Letting the slow and meticulous pronunciation of your words convey to this MF just how upset you are on the inside. And that they are inches away from some very bad noise going down if they don't change up their tune, but that you are trying hard to control yourself.
If they have half a lick of sense in their heads... they will realize you're a G and change-up their level of aggression quickly. Usually they scramble for some way of doing so that will make them look like less of a beyotch than they really are inside. Some way that helps them save-face.
The fact that they are not invoking a strong reactionary fear response from you will throw them off and be very unnerving to them and they won't know what to make of it. Typically it sends the subliminal message that they are dealing with a person that does not fear them and they will find this very unnerving. For they are perceiving themselves as being very menacing in that moment. Typically they will flare-up with the aggression a little bit more... just to see what you do... then usually they'll figure out a way to trail it back off without losing face.
A key component in this interaction is to stare into their eyes, and to not blink. And with just a hint of a look in your face that kinda conveys that you are controlling yourself from acting out angrily yourself right now. But that all that could change in a moments notice depending on how they proceed.
ALSO: Try to remember to engineer it so the first words out of your mouth in response to them will be something like "Can you help me with something here?" This helps to immediately shifts things away from being an adversarial interaction with them. And helps to take them back down from the offensive. In this instance you might say "Can you help me with something here? I'm trying to understand what you need help with here. What I've gotten from you soo far is that <restate what they said but in a polite way>. Do I have this right? (Get their confirmation). Well... then there's something I'm not understanding here. Something I'm just not getting. I am a bit tired so you'll have to forgive me. But I more than willingly offered you clear proof from my GPS device, that I'm not the person you seek. So I'm not understanding why you're acting this way towards me when I've not treated you with any disrespect. What am I not seeing here?"
OBSERVATION: BTW... These kinds of reactions from people seem to sharply drop off in your life once your chin is covered in grey/white hairs. for some reason. Strange how that works.
Larry, you make some good points and forever onward my response to this sort of situation will be different. There were definitely some lessons learned. Where I failed is, to think I could reason with this person and I didn't leave room for the X-factor. This person was NOT there to reason...he was there to punish. I may have just been the last hunter walking out that night...or parked closest to his [supposed] property line. Someone very well could have crossed his property and I took the blame?
Overall, I think most well adjusted people want to keep things civil and therefore expect most other people will react in a reasonable way. Many times this is true, but on those occasional encounters with "whack jobs" as you put it....this attitude can slow our internal alarm system and prevent us from taking the most prudent course of action.
I was so confident that my GPS track would be the end of the discussion and prove my innocence that I hadn't left room in the back of my mind that this guy wasn't going to accept the evidence.
What I can say, is that I'm glad even after getting sucker punched that I was able to diffuse the situation. At that point I was severely disadvantaged and based on the fact he was arrested with a loaded gun in his car...I highly suspect he was carrying that night. If I would have charged him, I do believe he may have used it.
In the moment this happened so quickly it was hard to think ahead to what to do next. However, in hindsight, I've had much time to consider and puzzle out every second of this encounter leading up to it, during and after.
Why wasn't my headlamp turned on?
How I could have been more prepared ?
What should I have in my pocket or on my hip belt?
Why was my high power flashlight still in my pack?
What words I could have said differently ?
What tone should I have taken?
Why did I let him get in such close proximity to me ?
Why didn't I take my back pack off so I was more mobile?
When I saw his vehicle from a distance, why did I continue to walk towards it and not stop to think what this might mean?
Why didn't I pull out my binos and observe the situation from a distance?
Why didn't I have my camera ready?
Could I have approached my truck from another direction?
There are many more questions I ask myself...and scenarios I have played out. The bottom line is that most of us don't think we will ever be in this situation and when we are ...it hits you in the face (pun intended). Only the few who have had previous aggressive encounters or specialized training are equipped to know when and how high to raise the internal alarm bells. I encourage all hunters to play out a similar situation in their heads and consider how they would react, what their physical limitations or capabilities are, what gear they carry (or don't), what training they have, and on and on. Mentally prepare yourself before you encounter this in the field!!
As hunters we often feel like we are on the offensive and that we are the predator...but we need to remember there is always a bigger meaner dog out there and mother nature accepts no weakness. We should know and be ready to switch to defensive mode when neccessay and ensure we are around to hunt another day.
Thanks for your comments and observations...luckily I'm starting to get the first tints of gray on my chin so hopefully I'm on the downswing for these sorts of interactions.
Unless someone was there it's a tough situation.
I have gone to the Laguna General store to get food and drink and had been cornered by anti hunters.
I just walked away. Same going in for the hunt. Getting dirty stares.
Walk away.
Talking to ex border patrol agents who are my friends and neighbors.
If a person is within 15 ft. It's tough to react. When under attack.
You did nothing wrong and each and every situation is different.
But be always on guard and aware
Of one's sorrundings.
That is any where at any time.
My 2 cents
I have gone to the Laguna General store to get food and drink and had been cornered by anti hunters.
I just walked away. Same going in for the hunt. Getting dirty stares.
Walk away.
Talking to ex border patrol agents who are my friends and neighbors.
If a person is within 15 ft. It's tough to react. When under attack.
You did nothing wrong and each and every situation is different.
But be always on guard and aware
Of one's sorrundings.
That is any where at any time.
My 2 cents
D
Deleted member 27310
Guest
Good questions/observations Larry, good reply slugsniper,
Shat could of gotten ugly, more than a punch to the face since the guy was most likely packing a sidearm. Good things that I see came out of this that you went back home to family and friends (didn't get shot) and the dude got arrested and now facing charges.
Shat could of gotten ugly, more than a punch to the face since the guy was most likely packing a sidearm. Good things that I see came out of this that you went back home to family and friends (didn't get shot) and the dude got arrested and now facing charges.
