Excessive Freebore?

[Jdrivsd619]

In the process of trying to tighten up my groups and perfecting my reloading advantages I purchased a Hornady COL gauge tester from Fine Firearms today.

I am assuming that I am not reading it properly or I am not following the instructions correctly but I am very confused.

Rifle is a Weatherby Vanguard S2 Synthetic chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor.
I am going to be shooting the Hornady 129 gr SST, the manual says C.O.L. for this bullet and this cartridge is 2.670

My dilemma is that I am getting a C.O.L. length with this bullet in my weatherby at 2.8755 (toughing the Lands)

What exactly does this mean?
Is it safe to seat this bullet at 2.850 with the charges provided in the manual?

I have read that weatherbys do have excessive freeborn but only on their weatherby cartridges as this helps reduce pressure.

As a beginer reloader I would like critique on what to do
pics follow are of the rifle (with a little home pint job), a pic of the 2.670 compared to the 2.8755 that I am measuring with Hornady gauge.

 

[Gspman]

I may be wrong so double check me since i have not reloaded 6.5 for some time but i have the case should be trimmed to 1.92 have you double checked your case length?

the MAX OAL should be 2.815 so it seams you may be off? my ifo was from a 140G A-MAX I may be horribly wrong. Each rifle is different and has different needs. can you take it back with your rifle to fine fire arms and ask for a demo to double check your rifle? Im sure they would help they are great folks.

everything i have ever reloaded has had to fit into a Magazine so i always had to make sure i was short enough to fit the mag with no biding.

 

[Jdrivsd619]

I may be wrong so double check me since i have not reloaded 6.5 for some time but i have the case should be trimmed to 1.92 have you double checked your case length?

the MAX OAL should be 2.815 so it seams you may be off? my ifo was from a 140G A-MAX I may be horribly wrong. Each rifle is different and has different needs. can you take it back with your rifle to fine fire arms and ask for a demo to double check your rifle? Im sure they would help they are great folks.

everything i have ever reloaded has had to fit into a Magazine so i always had to make sure i was short enough to fit the mag with no biding.

I just checked the case length and it measured 1.92 which is great! I'm wondering if the "Weatherby" chamber is inherently longer? would it be ok to seat the SST longer or closer to the lands?

 

[Gspman]

If the chamber really is longer then probably Ok fr a little longer but i usually liek to stick to the grimp rings. Can you move up to the longer 140G? Might get better groups if the bullet crimp ring allows it to sit closer to the lands? watch for pressure and 59,000 is pretty high and 61,000 will be bad. but you wont get the speed youl loose some FPS

 

[Jdrivsd619]

If the chamber really is longer then probably Ok fr a little longer but i usually liek to stick to the grimp rings. Can you move up to the longer 140G? Might get better groups if the bullet crimp ring allows it to sit closer to the lands? watch for pressure and 59,000 is pretty high and 61,000 will be bad. but you wont get the speed youl loose some FPS

I would love to shoot a 140gr SST but the C.O.L. is only 2.69, .02 longer then the 129. The longest is the Amax but thats advertised as a non-hunting bullet seated to 2.80. And these loads are specifically for hunting D16 this season......
I shot TTSX last year but I wasn't happy with the terminal performance as it left a pinhole entrance and exit and almost no blood trail, but i was able to seat those bullets longer which would be why I was shooting sub MOA with those .....

 

[NBK]

You are fine. I would be more worried about a shorter OAL than a longer one. Measure the OAL of your magazine and if it is longer than 2.8755" then you are good to go.

Be happy your rig is set up for heavy bullets (not excessive). This is a good thing.

 

[MJB]

Love the SST and I hate copper for the reasons you mentioned but you better get use to it. Hit bone with the copper and you'll see better results or go get a 416 rigby and then you'll have a big enough hole on the way out......a buddy shot a yote at over 400yds and the copper left a great hole 1" on the way out

Like was said above if it fits in the mag you'll be fine. Let's see those groups

 

[Jdrivsd619]

Does this mean its ok to seat the SST longer then the manual says? I don't know if i feel comfortable going to much longer then recommended.

Im going to try and find some 140gr SST somewhere today or maybe even a different 140gr hunting bullet

But as far as the barnes goes, I hit my deer right in the arm pit. I don't think the bullet met enough mass to expand the copper to well. If I had to take the shot again i would have aimed for the shoulder where I know the bullet would meet more resistance and partake in that violent expansion that barnes boasts about. I would use a barnes for pigs, larger mule deer, elk, etc.but these small D16 bucks just don't have the mass that bullet needs to expand (this is just my experience)

 

[Gspman]

i know its a little off topic but with "non lead" coming in full bore in the next while. ill post any way. I hope its ok. ive spoken with barnes and with hornaday. I got exactly the same answer when i asked them about bullets not expanding. they both said that with the "new" copper bullets (both, especially barnes has been making them for a while know) you should go down in weight or even a caliber. In the same day i shot a bob cat at 200 yards last year with a 55G 223 barnes. It took 3 shots to stop it. all 3 went straight through. I little later same day same distance i shot another cat with 36G barnes 223. one shot no exit and it went down immediately. the bullet was inside fully mushroomed and weighed 34.5G when i got it home. so maybe we need to look at shooting smaller or slower bullets then we are used to? It might help in over penetration and the through and through's i see complaints about often.

2c

 

[NBK]

Jdrivsd619 don't worry about the recommended COAL in the book. Every rifle is different depending upon the reamer used. You are good to go.

I have been shooting Barnes "X" bullets since 1988. And "my opinion" is they are the best overall bullet ever made at a mass produced level. The bullets work and they work with a very low failure rate unlike lead bullets. There are very few bullets than can be used from coyotes up through brown bear, but the X bullet is one of them.

Below are just a few bullets I could quickly scrounge up (I have a bunch) that I have pulled from very dead animals. And that is my goal. I don't care what the entrance or exit hole looks like. All I want is an animal on the ground.

Flame away lead lovers!

 

[Gspman]

Jdrivsd619 don't worry about the recommended COAL in the book. Every rifle is different depending upon the reamer used. You are good to go.

I have been shooting Barnes "X" bullets since 1988. And "my opinion" is they are the best overall bullet ever made at mass produced level. The bullets work and they work with a very low failure rate unlike lead bullets. There are very few bullets than can be used from coyotes up through Brown bear but the X bullet is one of them.

Below are just a few bullets I could quickly scrounge up (I have a bunch) that have been pulled from very dead animals. And that is my goal. I don't care what the entrance or exit hole looks like. All i want is an animal on the ground.

Flame away lead lovers!

Yup +1

 

[Jdrivsd619]

Oh I so badly want to gain my trust back in barnes.... after all I will be shooting them in the next year or so when lead gets phased out.
BUT
a lack of blood trail has been the root of nightmares for me!!!!

Is not the lead that I'm a fan of its the big holes that bleed a lot and the ability to induce hydrostatic shock forcing blood pressure to spike in the brain leading to a coma often seen in very violent bullets that expand explosivley

NBK where do you shoot your animals? do you shoot for the shoulder or in the soft tissue behind the shoulder? (most common area)

 

[NBK]

NBK where do you shoot your animals? do you shoot for the shoulder or in the soft tissue behind the shoulder? (most common area)

Behind the shoulder...lights out!

 

[Jdrivsd619]

SWEET NBK 8) !!!!!

In regards to GSPman about dropping bullet weight? I shot a 120gr TTSX and got a pass through and experienced the pin hole effect. From your experiences, would you recommend dropping to 100 gr and a faster load or a slower load?

 

[NBK]

No...I recommend shooting the bullet weight your gun shoots best. Folks are over analyzing everything. Shoot your game, walk over and take a look at how dead the animal is. Mission accomplished.

Most critics of the "X" bullet have either read some bad press or have little experience with the bullet. Kill a dozen animals with it and then form an opinion. Keep in mind that a well placed shot is the key to all bullets.

Again, all bullets can fail.

Also go talk to SDbirds or Josh Pearson about coyotes, foxes and and bobcats and bullets. Those guys kill the "lions" share of the predators on this forum and they shoot the "X" bullet. They experimented with a bunch of lead and came to the conclusion that they get less runners and bullet splash from Barnes than any other bullet. Again, a sample size of 1 or 2 is not something to base your opinion on.

Off rant, again - You lead boys go ahead and flame away!

 

[MJB]

Load the copper hot slow won't expand. I load until I see pressure then back off a little and back it off the lands .04-.05. Most are .043-.047 for me. My 270 breaks the pedals off even on a none bone hit which creates a bigger wound channel but when you hit bone the broken bones create a great wound channel and tends to drop them quickly.

When I shoot copper I want to hit bone or travel 2-3' of the body then I don't have to track.

Most likely the bullet did expand but it stayed together and exited twice the caliber diameter which is not much.....pin hole in/out and the blood stayed in the body of the deer hence no blood trail.

I shoot the SST on deer & elk with no issues some say it's for thin skinned or small animals but not true. Now I won't go for a shoulder bone shot with it. I'm sure it would be fine but that's a chance I try not to take and haven't had to yet Elk's organs are back behind the shoulder for the most part. Now my buddy on the last elk hunt shooting copper took 2 shots to put his down both of our shots were quartering away at 240yds. Mine fell backwards right after the shot his had to side step mine and he hit it again when it looked back at his dead buddy.

Soon everyone in this state will have to make their own conclusions on how copper performs......I predict many will not be happy it's less forgiving than lead in many ways but has better accuracy and it blows bones apart.

 

[NBK]

Complete thread jack!

A good number of folks seem to think if you shoot an animal with a rifle the game should just drop in it's tracks. And that just isn't so. Lung shots and some heart shots will have the animal running for many yards. If you take a good shot, the animal just needs to drain it's adrenalin, drown in its blood or cease pumping blood.

I have seen many animals and pigs in particular shot by Snake Charmer with Nosler Partitions (the standard that all hunting bullets are held to) run 100+ yards and then tip over dead. It is just part of how things work when vitals are turned off. It is not a copper thing or a lead thing. The point is, Fred never worried about how fast they tipped over, just as long as they tipped over. This is an experience thing, knowing where your bullet hit etc.

It is a great topic and a good thing to see others opinions and experiences. But I do think folks, in some cases, have unrealistic expectations of what a hunting bullet is supposed to do.

 

[ilovesprig]

Hit 'em high, watch 'em die............Hit 'em low, watch 'em go............. ;D

 

[NBK]

Fresh off the press. Skinny hunter dug this .270 cal. 130 Grain TTSX Barnes out of his lung shot bear this past Saturday (he will be posting shortly). He has a dead bear and a bullet that looks like it worked. His brother also shot a bear Saturday with a Barnes and it tipped over as well.

 

[ilovesprig]

Gnarly looking bullets!...................... :-\