Lion Attack in San Diego

TheGDog

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Nope.. no part of it including meat can be brought back. Anyone remember the media feeding frenzy years back when a CA F&G Commissioner killed a lion in Idaho (legal) and they ousted him...
Pssh... I'm still pissed that they Witch-hunted the Dentist guy that put that Bow shot on Cecil the Lion.

Everybody and their Mama were all up-in-arms about the Dentist. And I'm all over here like WTF?? Are you serious?? Dude... he's in a foreign freakin' country! You think HE is gonna know whether or not he is standing upon a legal place at which to hunt a creature? Or know that what a legally licensed outfitter he paid butt-loads of money to is doing is not kosher? You can't be serious with that!?

But they don't care... they just know something furry died... and that is was "pretty"... and it had a name... and they wanted to hang somebody.. and they certainly couldn't do anything about the actions of the outfitters in that far off land.

I'm all over here thinking shoot...are you kidding me? This dude paid something like $55K !!!... And... he freakin shot it with a Bow! Hate it or Love it, this dude managed to pull off something pretty dang ballsy by most peoples standards if you ask me. A Lion with a Bow!? Sheeeeit I'd have to be intimately familiar with the shooting skills of whomever was backing me up with a rifle before I'd even THINK of trying something that ballsy. No thanks.
 
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ilovesprig

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Another lion attack....https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/03/second-mountain-lion-attack-in-a-week-another-child-injured/?fbclid=IwAR2GYgGp6XfDwtpoqfpvJvqNQQC6eLG7CS6KEUXTC55DthxZY5bRdE0HMQA
 

TheGDog

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RE: "There have been seven fatal lion attacks in the United States in the past 25 years, three of them in California. "


Hrmm... 2019... - 25 years....= 1994

Let's see... MtnLion Ban in CA started 1990, right?

"Do the math!" right?

And now these same "fardigan bastages" wanna go and do this with BobCats too? What the Whaaaaat??? "Smooth Move... ExLax!"
 

Kellendv

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RE: "There have been seven fatal lion attacks in the United States in the past 25 years, three of them in California. "


Hrmm... 2019... - 25 years....= 1994

Let's see... MtnLion Ban in CA started 1990, right?

"Do the math!" right?

And now these same "fardigan bastages" wanna go and do this with BobCats too? What the Whaaaaat??? "Smooth Move... ExLax!"
The ban was codified into law in 1990, but a moratorium on hunting had been in place since 1971.
 

TheGDog

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Thank you. Cool to know.

Hrmm, I'd seen a chart showing the decline in deer numbers since 1990. I wonder if 1990 was perhaps around the time when their numbers started to measurably rebound?
 

Kellendv

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Thank you. Cool to know.

Hrmm, I'd seen a chart showing the decline in deer numbers since 1990. I wonder if 1990 was perhaps around the time when their numbers started to measurably rebound?
I don’t know why fish and game only publishes numbers since 1990. Perhaps because they only have their own data since then? It’s regrettable because it makes it look like numbers have only been falling since around the time when lion hunting was made to be illegal. The mule deer population in California (and in the west in general) has been declining since the 1960’s, from an estimated high of around 2 million in California back then. Much of the decline occurred when lion hunting was still legal, in fact the population dropped from the high of more than 2 million to about a million all while lion hunting was still legal, and before the moratorium was put into place. It has continued to drop, but not as precipitously as during that time frame.

Should lion hunting be legal in California? Absolutely. Wildlife management requires management of predators and I would happily buy a tag, and could have filled one or two in the last five years. Are lions the “cause” of the decline of deer in CA? Sorry, it’s way more complicated than that. The human population in California in 1960 was about 15 million, in 1990 it was 30 million, and its 40 million now. You just can’t have population growth like that and expect everything we displaced to be fine. I’m 34 and in my lifetime I’ve seen plenty of deer habitat covered in town homes. I would imagine @ilovesprig has lost more hunting spots to urban sprawl than he can remember (that’s not a poke at your age Sprig!). Change in habitat due to fire suppression is another big contributor. Habitat loss is and will continue to be the number one challenge these animals face.
 

ilovesprig

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Well put, Kellen

Two things you hit on (Well, beside my age...lol) is, fire suppression and habitat lost....I just noticed going out to the IV how thick/overgrown the areas are along Int. 8....Deer hunting was never better in the "16" as it was after the 2003 & 2007 fires....When fire hits this area again (and it will), habitat will improve and so will our deer population.

Yes, I have seen a lot of chance in my 71 years, but it's still puzzling to me why the mule deer herds have diminished....The Sierra's today look basically the same as when I shot my 1st buck in 1959.

I've hunted the "16" since 1974....Some back country changes, but not really that many....I really do think our deer in San Diego is solid (despite many big cats)....Just tougher to hunt in some places.
 

TheGDog

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Dude, I'm 50yo. Man you ain't lyin' talkin' 'bout Urban Sprawl. And these dumb mofos are over here still pounding their fists about low-income housing development. Idiots! In my lifetime... the U.S. has grown in total population 60%!!! to 320 Million!!

I still remember what "traffic" looked like on the 405 Fwy as a kid. And when I see what it is now? It's mind-blowing people don't wake-up to this dilemma.

All the societal systems we have in place... and our economy has become centered around continuous growth at all costs... which ultimately can only happen when you're profiting off the backs of the youth...if you think about it. So the whole system is geared toward "We need more bodies!!!"
 

JakeSCH

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I don’t know why fish and game only publishes numbers since 1990. Perhaps because they only have their own data since then? It’s regrettable because it makes it look like numbers have only been falling since around the time when lion hunting was made to be illegal. The mule deer population in California (and in the west in general) has been declining since the 1960’s, from an estimated high of around 2 million in California back then. Much of the decline occurred when lion hunting was still legal, in fact the population dropped from the high of more than 2 million to about a million all while lion hunting was still legal, and before the moratorium was put into place. It has continued to drop, but not as precipitously as during that time frame.

Should lion hunting be legal in California? Absolutely. Wildlife management requires management of predators and I would happily buy a tag, and could have filled one or two in the last five years. Are lions the “cause” of the decline of deer in CA? Sorry, it’s way more complicated than that. The human population in California in 1960 was about 15 million, in 1990 it was 30 million, and its 40 million now. You just can’t have population growth like that and expect everything we displaced to be fine. I’m 34 and in my lifetime I’ve seen plenty of deer habitat covered in town homes. I would imagine @ilovesprig has lost more hunting spots to urban sprawl than he can remember (that’s not a poke at your age Sprig!). Change in habitat due to fire suppression is another big contributor. Habitat loss is and will continue to be the number one challenge these animals face.

BOOM!!! MIC DROP
 

SurfNHuntSD

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Should lion hunting be legal in California? Absolutely. Wildlife management requires management of predators and I would happily buy a tag, and could have filled one or two in the last five years.
Well put. I've always said that CDFW could make a good amount off lion tags while regulating the heck out of it like they enjoy doing, but they'll never come around on the idea sadly.
 

JakeSCH

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Well put. I've always said that CDFW could make a good amount off lion tags while regulating the heck out of it like they enjoy doing, but they'll never come around on the idea sadly.
Even worse is that it is not even up to them...

per CDFW

With the passage of Proposition 117 in 1990, mountain lions became a "specially protected species," making mountain lion hunting illegal in California. This status and other statutes prohibit the California Department of Fish and Wildlife from recommending a hunting season for lions, and it is illegal to take, injure, possess, transport, import, or sell any mountain lion or part of a mountain lion. Mountain lions may be killed only 1) if a depredation permit is issued to take a specific lion killing livestock or pets; 2) to preserve public safety; or 3) to protect listed bighorn sheep.
 

TheGDog

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What does "listed" bighorn sheep mean? Are some bighorn sheep in certain areas considered plentiful enough that they don't bother trying to protect them?
 

Kellendv

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What does "listed" bighorn sheep mean? Are some bighorn sheep in certain areas considered plentiful enough that they don't bother trying to protect them?
Listed typically refers to the ESA (Endangered Species Act). We have huntable populations of Desert Bighorns in California, they of course are not "listed." I would guess that that statement refers to Sierra Nevada Bighorns, and possibly the Peninsular Bighorns down here in San Diego and Riverside counties, although I am not 100% sure about the listed status of those two populations. I do know they are currently not available to be hunted.
 
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Kellendv

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Well put, Kellen

Two things you hit on (Well, beside my age...lol) is, fire suppression and habitat lost....I just noticed going out to the IV how thick/overgrown the areas are along Int. 8....Deer hunting was never better in the "16" as it was after the 2003 & 2007 fires....When fire hits this area again (and it will), habitat will improve and so will our deer population.

Yes, I have seen a lot of chance in my 71 years, but it's still puzzling to me why the mule deer herds have diminished....The Sierra's today look basically the same as when I shot my 1st buck in 1959.

I've hunted the "16" since 1974....Some back country changes, but not really that many....I really do think our deer in San Diego is solid (despite many big cats)....Just tougher to hunt in some places.
I think you're right about the "backcountry." In general the National Forest and BLM boundaries have probably not changed too much. The biggest factor affecting those areas is fire or lack-thereof. It's frustrating to see the huge swaths of land that haven't burned for decades that are choked with 12 foot tall impenetrable walls of manzanita, scrub oak etc that would otherwise be excellent habitat. When the fires eventually do burn those areas they'll burn so hot they literally nuke the soil. The organic matter in the soil actually burns and leaves behind sand.

What I think has changed a lot is the type of private properties that exist. As the economic machine of California has changed many big properties (ranches, farms) have been sold off to developers and they are subdivided and covered in tract homes. I get it, people need a place to live. But that type of development has eaten up a huge amount of what was once suitable habitat in the valleys and foothills all over California. I think of Temecula Valley. I can remember as a kid driving out to Idyllwild. We always took the 79 (Temecula Parkway) and drove out through Anza instead of going through Hemet. Temecula Parkway used to be chaparral and fields. It's gas stations and Starbucks now. Examples of that sort of development in California are too numerous to count. Life in the most populous state in The Union....

I agree with you about D16 being solid, and socal D zones in general. Once you figure it out it's no great feat to fill a tag. Yeah, I want good tags everywhere too but there's something so satisfying about getting it done in your backyard.
 

TheGDog

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The organic matter in the soil actually burns and leaves behind sand.
I can see where you might think that. But observing firsthand... It leaves behind a buncha material in the soil that makes for crazy growth! Just takes a bit of waiting for the rains to come along. The bigger problem with those areas is erosion, and how it changes the landscape. The burn areas being soo devoid afterward can cause habitat change that takes a long time to morph back into what it used to look like. I've watched this over these past five years at this one spot on the backside of D11. When I first started going there... there was literally a ton of ash mixed in with the sand/soil. It would make my boots grey hiking thru parts of it.

But now... the way these two years... we've had good rains... with breaks in between (<- a critical part of the formula so not just a big mudflow situation wping that material outta there) and cloudy sun between so the water can stay in the ground for a few... that area is covered in BILLIONS of small flowers and grasses, and ton of green injected up in the brush and scrub oaks that made it thru the fires. Still gonna take awhile though for the pines that were lost in the higher-up parts though. Them big trees got scorched. They're just waiting to fall over now. Darn good thing the scrub oaks and manzanita can spring up pretty easy, otherwise those ridges would crumble and melt worse than they did.
 

Kellendv

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I can see where you might think that. But observing firsthand... It leaves behind a buncha material in the soil that makes for crazy growth! Just takes a bit of waiting for the rains to come along. The bigger problem with those areas is erosion, and how it changes the landscape. The burn areas being soo devoid afterward can cause habitat change that takes a long time to morph back into what it used to look like. I've watched this over these past five years at this one spot on the backside of D11. When I first started going there... there was literally a ton of ash mixed in with the sand/soil. It would make my boots grey hiking thru parts of it.

But now... the way these two years... we've had good rains... with breaks in between (<- a critical part of the formula so not just a big mudflow situation wping that material outta there) and cloudy sun between so the water can stay in the ground for a few... that area is covered in BILLIONS of small flowers and grasses, and ton of green injected up in the brush and scrub oaks that made it thru the fires. Still gonna take awhile though for the pines that were lost in the higher-up parts though. Them big trees got scorched. They're just waiting to fall over now. Darn good thing the scrub oaks and manzanita can spring up pretty easy, otherwise those ridges would crumble and melt worse than they did.
You may have misunderstood me. It’s not my opinion , it’s what I’ve learned from talking with a fire ecologist. And I’m not talking about your average forest fire. As I stated before fire suppression is a major contributor to habitat degradation. Fire cycles are really important for regenerating healthy habitat. When I talk about soil getting nuked I’m talking about land that hasn’t burned for decades and has so much fuel it burns at much higher temps than your average first fire. Whatever burn you are talking about may not have burned at those temps. It does all regenerate given enough time. Unfortunately when it takes too long non-native species can get a head start. Nevada has a lot of issues with cheatgrass for example.