The lie of Black Lives Matter

[WaterDog]

Feel free to talk about anything and everything. Relevant information related to the forum, events, sponsors etc.
The above makes this a pretty wide open forum. I appreciate the people in charge and the mods allowing this. Just be respectful of each other.
The thing is if there is a topic you don’t like or don’t feel comfortable with then don’t read it and don’t participate in that particular discussion. Just change the channel.
As far as the Hodge Twins, I don’t give a damn about their ethnicity, they are just two righteous young Americans (Americans before anything else) who speak truth and can talk about some things many of us would be condemned for talking about.

 

[surfcity]

WaterDog - This has frustrated me all day. And I don't know why really.... I guess the more I thought about it the more it pissed me off. I am EXTREMELY disappointed in myself for allowing that to happen. I am leery I guess of anybody who acts like that.

 

[Snake Charmer]

Opinion are like a!!holes , everyone has one, I don't deny or agree with what they are saying but I will say there are cracks in their performance I don't think work as far as a good response to the current problems.

 

[monyako]

I’ve been busy with work, but I thought I’d take a few minutes to delineate the structural and logical fallacies of the twins’ video. The core argument the twins make and illustrate is that the police unnecessarily kill white people as well, so police violence isn’t necessarily targeted at black people, but a consequence of policing. They then show examples of the police unnecessarily murdering white people as proof. The implicit conclusion is we in America don’t have a racial problem, but a policing problem. This idea does have merit. During my last year in the Marines I served in an MP company, and we all knew which MPs antagonized other Marines until it violence occurred. This is the bad apple scenario. I will note of the bad apples - they didn’t target officers, so presumably they were able to control their aggression against high status individuals. This is the common pattern in the twins’ videos - low status, or vulnerable whites being killed.

The next limitation of the video is reasoning from the specific to the general, or put another way - the sample size is too limited to map to the lived reality of hundreds of millions of people having billions of interactions with law enforcement annually. If all of those videos were from a single city during a single year they would still not constitute proof of their augment. All those videos prove is that police officers failed in their duty to their fellow citizens and their oath in these interactions. It is not proof of how policing works in America.

When I watch the video I see two Americans who love their country, respect law enforcement, and don’t see policing through the prism of race. What I don’t see if proof that the BLM movement is a lie or factually incorrect in their analysis of how policing functions in many communities throughout the country.

 

[WaterDog]

Jeeze I really don’t t want to get into this but I will just state the following Then I’m done with this. 99% of police shootings no matter the ethnicity and justified or not have certain things in common. First the police are there because the purp/victims are committing a criminal act. Second the criminal/victim refuses to follow police orders and commands. Third the criminal resists often violently. Had the victims not done one or all three they would be alive today. So while I can see that we can improve and modify police training perhaps the various communities can teach their criminal element that if they must commit a criminal act that when the police come follow police commands, don’t verbally or physically resist and don’t flee.
Long long ago when I was a leo I operated on the following - first I ask them nicely, if they don’t comply I tell or order them. If they still don’t comply I make them. And when I made them I always used more than minimal force because if I didn’t I’d get my ass kicked or shot.
ATM - ask,tell,make.

 

[monyako]

@WaterDog I think what you are describing is totally reasonable for people like you and me. However, referencing the twins' video - that poor man in the hotel was drunk, and he tried to comply and was still killed. Or people with psychiatric problems who can't comply, but shouldn't lose their life as a result. With respect to criminals, well those people are criminals...no community can teach them anything. If plan A is for criminals to behave rationally we need a new plan.

Thank you for your thoughtful and relevant contribution to this discussion. This is such a highly charged topic, and consensus can be difficult to develop, but civility is a minimum requirement for a constructive discussion.

 

[longbowhunter2]

Progressive Utopia – GrrrGraphics

grrrgraphics.com

 

[surfcity]

Fact don't mean a thing. Its obvious that he only wants to hear what he wants. I suffer from black privilege I wanted to play in the NFL but I am to small can't jump high and can't run fast... Facts are facts. The fact its sensitive is a premise that has been established by people who are emotional and can't handle the truth. The hypocrisy is nauseating and the censorship is even more nauseating but it is what it is. If black lives matter why do black kill hundreds of other blacks in black Utopian neighborhoods every week. Why are prisons full of black men? Why does Plan Parenthood Thrive in the black Utopian neighborhoods? Why does black lives matter give all there money to Democrats? None of the money goes to Black Family's? Hmmmm.... Why don't people explain to the Black Family's that they are still on the plantation? Why has the black family gone to poo over the last 50years? Why would a black American vote for the Party of the KKK? Who would give a praising eulogy over a KKK Grand Wizard Robert Byrd .... a democratic Presidential candidate by the name of Hillary Clinton. Who voted for the most racist president in Modern HISTORY? Democrats (Lyndon b Johnson). I am confused. I guess admitting you have been played for 50yrs is a hard truth pill to swallow.
I suspect that you are raising your 2 boys to be Amazing Americans...whatever that means now. One can hope... but facts are facts. I have to deal with them everyday. I don't like most of what they are but hey I have to deal with it. Like the fact that illegals are taking over the state. The fact that illegals are taking away real American jobs. The fact that illegals are taking money out of black neighborhoods. The fact that illegals are pushing traditional Black neighborhoods out of their cities....... Or maybe the facts that minority's keep voting for old white people every effing time and nothing changes..... I don't know what do you think.....whats that old saying "doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same result means your are insane". I am a little frustrated with this nonsence as you might sence. Thanks for being part of the Military. Its probably my biggest regret in life.
BTW - I have a really good spot to hunt rabbits. Its a drive tho and its in the CNF. There are Fantastic Camp sites that way. Maybe you and your two boys could do a weekend down this way.
DM me if you want the map and some pics of where to go. I hope you take me up on the offer

 

[monyako]

@surfcity I thought I would put together a list of things we probably agree on:

• Corporatist are selling our country out for Chinese money
• Illegal immigration hurts teens looking for jobs, and take benefits meant for Americans
• You can’t have freedom of speech and hate speech at the same time
• The 2nd amendment is being infringed upon
• The democrats and republicans care more about donors than citizens
• The corruption in our society is spreading and civic virtue is receding

And perhaps most importantly in this forum at least - getting boys out into the wild hunting and fishing is always and everywhere a good thing. And yes, I will take you up on your offer and will DM later. Thank you.

 

[Muledeerhunter]

I’ve been busy with work, but I thought I’d take a few minutes to delineate the structural and logical fallacies of the twins’ video. The core argument the twins make and illustrate is that the police unnecessarily kill white people as well, so police violence isn’t necessarily targeted at black people, but a consequence of policing. They then show examples of the police unnecessarily murdering white people as proof. The implicit conclusion is we in America don’t have a racial problem, but a policing problem. This idea does have merit. During my last year in the Marines I served in an MP company, and we all knew which MPs antagonized other Marines until it violence occurred. This is the bad apple scenario. I will note of the bad apples - they didn’t target officers, so presumably they were able to control their aggression against high status individuals. This is the common pattern in the twins’ videos - low status, or vulnerable whites being killed.

The next limitation of the video is reasoning from the specific to the general, or put another way - the sample size is too limited to map to the lived reality of hundreds of millions of people having billions of interactions with law enforcement annually. If all of those videos were from a single city during a single year they would still not constitute proof of their augment. All those videos prove is that police officers failed in their duty to their fellow citizens and their oath in these interactions. It is not proof of how policing works in America.

When I watch the video I see two Americans who love their country, respect law enforcement, and don’t see policing through the prism of race. What I don’t see if proof that the BLM movement is a lie or factually incorrect in their analysis of how policing functions in many communities throughout the country.

Absolutely the BLM movement is a lie. If they believed in their slogan they would be in the inner cities helping the residents get jobs and tutoring kids. When will there be an audit of BLM finances? What salary are the top people paying themselves? Also, what seems to get left out is that minorities commit crimes at a higher rate than their population percentage, hence more interactions with law enforcement. Those are FBI statistics. Not being successful does not prove racism. The vast majority of every race is not in the upper class, or even the upper middle class, of society. Not everyone is equal, some are born brighter than others, increasing the likelihood of success, and if you weren't, you better work hard to achieve success. The government has spent trillions of dollars trying to solve poverty, without any effect. Has BLM asked the corporations why they shipped out all the jobs? Of course not, they're too busy getting donations from Big Business.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[surfcity]

@surfcity I thought I would put together a list of things we probably agree on:

• Corporatist are selling our country out for Chinese money
• Illegal immigration hurts teens looking for jobs, and take benefits meant for Americans
• You can’t have freedom of speech and hate speech at the same time
• The 2nd amendment is being infringed upon
• The democrats and republicans care more about donors than citizens
• The corruption in our society is spreading and civic virtue is receding

And perhaps most importantly in this forum at least - getting boys out into the wild hunting and fishing is always and everywhere a good thing. And yes, I will take you up on your offer and will DM later. Thank you.

I agree with all most everything you said "Except" for the Free Speech part. All speech should be free speech shouldn't matter For example Everything Nancy Pelosi says is hate speech to me. DO I want her to shut up? NO I want the American people to hear just how stupid the commie wench sounds....even when my emotions get the best of me and I say stupid or write stupid I want to be called out on it. I want my ignorance to be on full display...how else am I going to get better? Truth Hurts it applies to everyone one.
I will send you the map and directions. You don't have to thank me! I love all Americans, truly. I appreciate you!

 

[monyako]

@surfcity Re:free speech - we are saying the same thing. I think criminalizing any form of speech is a violation of the constitution (except the fire in a movie theater example). I'm happy we are on the same page on these points!

 

[HATCHET1]

Larry?

 

[GUNDOGLOVER]

Larry?

Larry's not here man. Oh sorry that was Dave. I don't recall, did Dave have a .380 or just a bong?

 

[Mud Pigeon]

@SteveHazard I live in Los Angeles. The areas I've been looking into are Riverside and and Kern County, but SD works just as well. I have two boys 12 & 14 who are fired up to learn to hunt. We just bought 12ga semis for rabbits and turkeys, and maybe ducks when the season comes.

You've gotten them their hunter safety cert to get a license, right? Have you looked into hunting Pendleton?

 

[monyako]

@SteveHazard Yes to hunter safety, and no to Pendleton (I heard they canceled guest hunting privileges). I have a friend who is just finishing up a tour as drill instructor, but he's shipping out to Japan in August, so that window is a bit limited if it is an option. @surfcity was generous enough to put us on some good spots, so we will get started in July. I also saw the flyer for cleanup in advance of bird season. We'll definitely be out there to cleanup and learn. Thanks for the suggestion! I'm digging into the newbie den now...should have started there, but of course I jumped into the most controversial topic in the world today instead, Damnit!