WARNING - Traditions Nitrofire

[White Smoke]

A friend just bought one of the new Traditions Nitrofire muzzleloaders and asked me what I thought of it. I hadn't heard of it and when he described how it worked, I was HIGHLY skeptical. I am NOT a lawyer, but I am pretty familiar with California laws, so I did some research and found out this system is not legal in California, or in many other states, if any. The ignition system, while ingenious and a great idea, does not meet the definition of a muzzleloader. The law here in California, and most other states, requires that the rifle be loaded from the muzzle. In a muzzleloader, the load means the powder AND the bullet, not just the bullet. Since the Nitrofire loads the bullet from the muzzle and the powder from the breech, it does not meet the definition of a muzzleloader. Like I said earlier, I am NOT an attorney, but I would think twice before I purchased one of these, at least until a full legal opinion is obtained and the system is approved by DFW. Personally, I like the idea, but I'm betting against any approval.

 

[Aeon]

The NitroFire® Changes Muzzleloading!

Traditions® Firearms has changed muzzleloading forever. In collaboration with Federal Premium® and Hodgdon® Powder, the NitroFire® and Firestick™ make muzzleloading safer, more reliable, and more consistent. The NitroFire® is the first and best muzzleloader on the market that uses this...

www.traditionsfirearms.com

 

[duck-boy]

From their website..

 

[Blkpowder Hunter]

Just my quick reaction is that this just seems wrong. A muzzle loader is not a breach loader, you might as well just load a brass shell with blackpowder.

 

[HATCHET1]

I like California

 

[Blkpowder Hunter]

I like California

I semi-like CA and I’ve been here with the exception of 4 years in KS since 1953. It was better years ago than now. But to use a phraise of the day ”it is what it is” so deal with it.

 

[HATCHET1]

Its designed to hurt.

 

[Blkpowder Hunter]

Its designed to hurt.

I get it and understand the March of technology. At the end of the day with muzzle loaders I personally fall in the more traditional end of the spectrum. I think historically that is why there is a separate season, just my personal preference.

 

[White Smoke]

That's 14 states where IN THEIR OPINION, the weapon is legal. You'd better double and triple-check with someone with knowledge in the state you want to hunt if it's legal or not. It's your ass that's going to get the ticket and "They said it was legal!" ain't gonna cut it.

 

[White Smoke]

Turns out the NitroFire MAY be legal in Kalifornication after all. A DFW Captain friend of mine and I discussed the way the law is written and it does say the projectile has to go in from the front, but is mute about the powder. He says it's legal. I did contact the DFW in Sacto and asked for a clarification but haven't heard back as yet. As soon as I do, I'll post the response here.

 

[White Smoke]

Here's the reply...
Hi Mr. Barber:

I did some checking within the Law Enforcement Division of the Department. Basically, we believe your interpretation is correct… the bullet and the powder/charge must both be loaded from the muzzle. This would be for the take of big game mammals. As such, we do not think the use of a “NitroFire” muzzleloader would be legal for the take of big game in CA.

Thank you for asking.


Liz Orme

California Department of Fish & Wildlife

Law Enforcement Division

(916) 717-9064

 

[White Smoke]

That said, it WOULD be legal to use during the General season, just not during the Muzzleloader season.

 

[fish dog]

Well, I don't hunt with back powder (yet), but I always thought the idea of a muzzle-loading season was to let people experience hunting with period-correct (flintlock or percussion cap) antique or replica antique firearms. Some of these newer muzzleloaders aren't a lot different from modern centerfire rifles. I suppose you could almost say the same about modern archery equipment, though, so I'm not so sure I'm absolutely correct here. Is anybody else thinking that way? Either way, I don't have a dog in that fight anyway, so don't take too much stock in my opinion.

 

[TrapLine]

I would love to hunt with an old civil war rifle.

 

[d16ridgehiker]

Here's the reply...
Hi Mr. Barber:

I did some checking within the Law Enforcement Division of the Department. Basically, we believe your interpretation is correct… the bullet and the powder/charge must both be loaded from the muzzle. This would be for the take of big game mammals. As such, we do not think the use of a “NitroFire” muzzleloader would be legal for the take of big game in CA.

Thank you for asking.


Liz Orme

California Department of Fish & Wildlife

Law Enforcement Division

(916) 717-906

Id like to see this challenged.... LOL. While they "believe" your interpretation is correct it doesnt mean thats the law. Courts decide/interpret the laws, not the police nor any law enforcement agnecy. Clearly states projectile loaded from muzzle using black powder or equivalent. Says nothing about where the powder has to be loaded. If it doesnt state it specifically it shouldnt be illegal. With that said I dont hunt muzzleloader so it doesnt apply to me.


EDIT: Just noticed this was an old thread that wont die!!

 

[Wildgame]

It sounds like they would ticket you first and then figure it out. After legal fees and time spent I wouldn't bother. Just saying.

 

[d16ridgehiker]

It sounds like they would ticket you first and then figure it out. After legal fees and time spent I wouldn't bother. Just saying.

"I wouldnt bother" is how our rights are chipped away everyday. CA agencies are so out of their goddamn minds they need to be put in check.

 

[180ls1]

"I wouldnt bother" is how our rights are chipped away everyday. CA agencies are so out of their goddamn minds they need to be put in check.

That's an interesting way of seeing it. I always thought of muzzloaders as a limited weapon so the restrictions around them are there to limit the ever increasing effectiveness. Seeing 500+ yard muzzloaders that are fast reloading goes completely away from the intent of them and that season in my book.

Same reasoning we don't allow crossbows or pneumatic bolts during bow season.

 

[d16ridgehiker]

That's an interesting way of seeing it. I always thought of muzzloaders as a limited weapon so the restrictions around them are there to limit the ever increasing effectiveness. Seeing 500+ yard muzzloaders that are fast reloading goes completely away from the intent of them and that season in my book.

Same reasoning we don't allow crossbows or pneumatic bolts during bow season.

I agree with you on the muzzleloader being a limited weapon and should keep said limits for hunting seasons. However, we are also talking about the "interpretation" of the law as written. As written it only says projectile loaded from muzzle. Says nothing about where the powder has to be loaded. Note that this system uses a primer/ignition system that is sold separately and is not an included part of the powder charge.

If CA law wants to keep it limited to traditional muzzleloaders they need to clarify the law to specifically state where each of the components of the shot has to be loaded. As I see it this company just found a way to be legal within the way the law is written. Same as everyone has done with AR-15's.

We cant use crossbows and pneumatic bolts because the law specifically forbids it in writing.