I HATE COPPER!

[ilovesprig]

So, I took my daughter out yesterday evening hoping so see that big 4x3 that I saw last Saturday....Instead of seeing him, we saw nothing for 4 hours...Like I've mentioned before, this place is like hunting white-tails, despite being SoCal muleys...One day you've got deer (& bucks) everywhere...Then the next, nothing...Like has happened many times, right before sundown we see our 1st deer...2 does and a little forky...10 minutes later we see a 3x2 buck coming down the mountain and out of the thick oaks...Being that Stef has so few days to hunt, we decide this guy is going to get greased, if she gets a shot...15 or 20 minutes go by and he picks up 2 does and makes his way towards us...At about 90-100 yds, Stef tries to adjust the sticks and he pins us...He kept walking towards her, but she just doesn't have a shot...Finally he clears some debris and she lets loose...He jumps, kicks, and away he goes...She instantly says, "Did I miss?"...To be honest, I just couldn't tell even watching thru the Swarvo's...We waited for a few minutes, then got up to where she shot...Nothing...It's 5:00 pm and getting dark fast...I break out the flashlights and we start looking the direction he ran...No blood anywhere...After about 1 1/2 hours, I decide it was best to come back today.

So we get up early this morning, and drive to Julian...Windy as hell...So I'm thinking, so much for finding blood on oak leaves...We get to the highest point and decide to glass the meadows below...One scan and I see antlers..."There he is"...And Stef lets out a yell and runs down to him...What a relief for her (& me)...I open him up and she had shot him right thru the heart...Cavity was full of blood, but other than where he laid, nary another drop...This is the 4th buck in 2 weeks that I have run after being shot...2 found, 2 not found...This buck went 200+ yds shot thru the heart.

Not the big guy, but he weighed 114 on the hook and fat as can be...Will eat good and dang it was the high and low of hunting...With it ending with a high...Now Jacob is up...

ps...Tick invested sum bitch...lol

.

 

[HATCHET1]

Nice job girl!! Way to stay after um...not a fan of the hard metal either..uggh.

 

[Ocurtis]

I’ve had the exact same thing happen to me. If you don’t hit bone, your screwed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NBK]

I’ve had the exact same thing happen to me. If you don’t hit bone, your screwed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We have had amazing results with copper projectiles. From coyote up through elk. Devastating!

Many folks dont check the recommended twist rates for the bullet. If you spin the copper bullets too slowly they dont work well. Most of the older guns have to slow a twist for longer bullets. If they are shot out of the correct twist they perform amazing.

I bet Stephanie's .243 has a 1-10 twist. The 80 grain Barnes performs best out of a 1-8 twist.

In most cases, copper failure is operator error. Just saying...

 

[Ocurtis]

We have had amazing results with copper projectiles. From coyote up through elk. Devastating!

Many folks dont check the recommended twist rates for the bullet. If you spin the too slowly they dont work well. Most of the older guns have to slow a twist for longer bullets. If the are shot out of the correct twist the perform amazing.

I killed three antelope this year. I have a 15 year old 30-06 shooting the TTSX. I can’t imagine the gun is the issue. Like I said, their amazing when I hit bone, but no bone is an issue in my experience


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ilovesprig]

We have had amazing results with copper projectiles. From coyote up through elk. Devastating!

Many folks dont check the recommended twist rates for the bullet. If you spin the coper bullets too slowly they dont work well. Most of the older guns have to slow a twist for longer bullets. If they are shot out of the correct twist they perform amazing.

I bet Stephanie's .243 has a 1-10 twist. The 80 grain Barnes performs best out of a 1-8 twist.

In most cases, copper failure is operator error. Just saying...

John,

This is the 2nd time that I heard this today...Is a 6 year old Savage .243 Axis too old?...She may be in line for a new .270 that has the holes on the end the barrel for less recoil...lol

 

[NBK]

I killed three antelope this year. I have a 15 year old 30-06 shooting the TTSX. I can’t imagine the gun is the issue. Like I said, their amazing when I hit bone, but no bone is an issue in my experience


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If not spun fast enough the bullet wont stabilize and it yaw's (wobbles). It doesn't impact the animal nose first so it fails to open up violently as designed.

True story...

 

[Ocurtis]

If not spun fast enough the bullet wont stabilize and it yaw's (wobbles). It doesn't impact the animal nose first so it fails to open up violently as designed.

True story...

I believe you.... but I’ve done quite a bit of shooting and never experienced wobbles. I shot 1/4” groups, and smacked gongs at 600 yards, and never noticed it punching the paper. The buck I shot this year (325 yards) jumped and just stood there bleeding internally until o shot him again in the head. When I got up to him, there was a hole in his lungs but no blood on the ground. Maybe your right (I’ve never checked my twist rate.)

Anyways, I don’t hunt California so I will be switching to a Nosler Accubond.. but it will be a while because I have 140 rounds of custom loads that shoot like the devil!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hunt4lyf]

308 168 gr TTSX out of my 30 yr old A-Bolt have always worked great for me, from 50 yards out to 400 I've never had a problem on deer, elk and antelope. I prefer them over anything else and almost never hit bone other than ribs. I also have never recovered a bullet, every single animal was a complete pass through, including a couple bucks and a cow that went end to end.

 

[Ocurtis]

308 168 gr TTSX out of my 30 yr old A-Bolt have always worked great for me, from 50 yards out to 400 I've never had a problem on deer, elk and antelope. I prefer them over anything else and almost never hit bone other than ribs.

Same bullet I shoot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ilovesprig]

John,

I also shot my buck with Stef's .243...The entrance wound was obviously the size of the bullet...The exit wound was the size of a .50 piece...Both lungs were destroyed...Yet, the deer went down, then proceeded to get up and run another 50 yds...Maybe, it's all in my head...I shot a white-tail in Montana that did the same thing with a 30-06 and lead...Maybe, it's just something that happens.

 

[Snake Charmer]

Ocurtis and Sprig, bone is not the answer to copper performance it works well in all situations when we do our job, Steve, Please give us some photo shots of entry and exit wounds as well as gutted internals and damage. I in the past and now have always tried to triage the fate of the animal I have taken so that I can better understand what happened when the bullet struck flesh so as to better judge what happened and if I did my job or if my load was not up to the task. Yes technology has changed but from what I have seen with the evolution of copper and I believe it has come of age and has been viable for about twenty five years at this point. (NBK turned me onto copper back in the early 90"s). Not sure that every bullet builder is on the same page with it and as I stated in a different thread you seldom get the particle effect with copper like you did with lead and to me that is the difference. You have to drill them in the right spot. Yea I would stick with lead on deer and elk but that is not a choice anymore for us. Also from my experience pigs die quicker when you shoot them with copper because it penetrates the thick skin and underlying flesh and cartilidge that lies below the shoulder. My two cent's

 

[skinnyjimmy]

Steve, son has that same gun, axis and shoots that barnes 80 grain.
His buck dropped in its tracks.
We shoot other factory makes and by far barnes is most accurate in that weight.
Might give it a try..
Oh, congratulations to your daughter

 

[Ocurtis]

Ocurtis and Sprig, bone is not the answer to copper performance it works well in all situations when we do our job, Steve, Please give us some photo shots of entry and exit wounds as well as gutted internals and damage. I in the past and now have always tried to triage the fate of the animal I have taken so that I can better understand what happened when the bullet struck flesh so as to better judge what happened and if I did my job or if my load was not up to the task. Yes technology has changed but from what I have seen with the evolution of copper and I believe it has come of age and has been viable for about twenty five years at this point. (NBK turned me onto copper back in the early 90"s). Not sure that every bullet builder is on the same page with it and as I stated in a different thread you seldom get the particle effect with copper like you did with lead and to me that is the difference. You have to drill them in the right spot. Yea I would stick with lead on deer and elk but that is not a choice anymore for us. Also from my experience pigs die quicker when you shoot them with copper because it penetrates the thick skin and underlying flesh and cartilidge that lies below the shoulder. My two cent's

I don’t think we were arguing about how lethal the bullets are. I just think they make your animal harder to track as they done leave a huge blood trail due to smaller exit wounds.

All three of my Antelope dropped like rocks but that was because I broke spine on all three. 450 yards, 325, 275.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NBK]

I don’t think we were arguing about how lethal the bullets are. I just think they make your animal harder to track as they done leave a huge blood trail due to smaller exit wounds.

All three of my Antelope dropped like rocks but that was because I broke spine on all three. 450 yards, 325, 275.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nicely done Ocurtis.

 

[Ocurtis]

Nicely done Ocurtis.

Thanks John.

I need to stop by your shop again one of these days and get some goodies!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dawnandusk]

Awesome Job both of you !!!
Great pictures Steve.

 

[Ocurtis]

So, I took my daughter out yesterday evening hoping so see that big 4x3 that I saw last Saturday....Instead of seeing him, we saw nothing for 4 hours...Like I've mentioned before, this place is like hunting white-tails, despite being SoCal muleys...One day you've got deer (& bucks) everywhere...Then the next, nothing...Like has happened many times, right before sundown we see our 1st deer...2 does and a little forky...10 minutes later we see a 3x2 buck coming down the mountain and out of the thick oaks...Being that Stef has so few days to hunt, we decide this guy is going to get greased, if she gets a shot...15 or 20 minutes go by and he picks up 2 does and makes his way towards us...At about 90-100 yds, Stef tries to adjust the sticks and he pins us...He kept walking towards her, but she just doesn't have a shot...Finally he clears some debris and she lets loose...He jumps, kicks, and away he goes...She instantly says, "Did I miss?"...To be honest, I just couldn't tell even watching thru the Swarvo's...We waited for a few minutes, then got up to where she shot...Nothing...It's 5:00 pm and getting dark fast...I break out the flashlights and we start looking the direction he ran...No blood anywhere...After about 1 1/2 hours, I decide it was best to come back today.

So we get up early this morning, and drive to Julian...Windy as hell...So I'm thinking, so much for finding blood on oak leaves...We get to the highest point and decide to glass the meadows below...One scan and I see antlers..."There he is"...And Stef lets out a yell and runs down to him...What a relief for her (& me)...I open him up and she had shot him right thru the heart...Cavity was full of blood, but other than where he laid, nary another drop...This is the 4th buck in 2 weeks that I have run after being shot...2 found, 2 not found...This buck went 200+ yds shot thru the heart.

Not the big guy, but he weighed 114 on the hook and fat as can be...Will eat good and dang it was the high and low of hunting...With it ending with a high...Now Jacob is up...

ps...Tick invested sum bitch...lol

.View attachment 41842View attachment 41843View attachment 41844View attachment 41845

Steve, on another note, is the meat still good after sitting out over night in Southern California?

Congratulations on a great buck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[skeet]

That poor buck was full of ticks. Congrats for getting it done and I agree not a fan of copper even though the only 2 deer I have shot with it dropped in their tracks with neck shots but both needed finishing shots which sucks

 

[HATCHET1]

Throat patch with copper...i think.